20 Sep 11
The United States DOJ's Civil Complaint vs. Full Tilt Poker Amended [Updated]
The complaint alleges that Full Tilt defrauded its players by misrepresenting the security of their funds. Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, and Rafe Furst have been added to the civil suit, and each are facing significant penalties.
The United States Department of Justice has amended its civil complaint against Full Tilt Poker and several individuals related to it. As Subject: Poker reports, Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, and Rafe Furst have been added as new defendants.
See the official memorandum summarizing the changes.
The vast majority of the complaint is identical to what it was when it was first issued on Black Friday, but now there is information related to the amount of money owners paid themselves.
The complaint states that Full Tilt's owners paid themselves "approximately $443,860,529.89" and includes specific penalties that each of the 3 new defendants are facing: ~$42 million for Lederer, ~$25 million for Ferguson, and ~$12 million for Furst.
Furthermore, it restates that Full Tilt Poker and its owners have not repaid any of the roughly $300 million collectively owed to players.
The following statement on the liquidity of the company is directly from the complaint:
Full Tilt Poker’s CEO, Bitar, was well aware of the need for new deposits after April 15, 2011, and knew that even a few million dollars’ of unexpected withdrawals could reveal Full Tilt Poker’s true financial situation.
For example, in an internal Full Tilt Poker e-mail dated June 12, 2011, Bitar expressed concern that a company announcement regarding lay offs and the Board (including himself) being replaced would be seen as bad news, which would cause a “new run on the bank,” adding that “it could be a huge run” and that “at this point we can’t even take a five million run."
The Amendment also reveals information on the ownership of Tiltware LLC:
At all times relevant to the Amended Complaint, Bitar, Lederer, Ferguson, and Furst were among the founders of Full Tilt Poker, as well as part-owners of Tiltware, LLC, a California Limited Liability Company that was the beneficial owner of all other Full Tilt Poker entities.
In total, approximately 23 individuals owned shares in Full Tilt Poker. The FTP Insider Defendants specifically owned the following approximate percentages of Tiltware LLC: Bitar (7.8%), Lederer (8.6%), Ferguson (19.2%), and Furst (2.6%). The FTP Insider Defendants were also, at all relevant times, members of the Board of Directors of Tiltware LLC, and Ferguson was Chairman of the Board of Directors.
Additional Facts as taken from the Amended Complaint:
• As of March 31, 2011, Full Tilt Poker owed players from around the world over approximately $390,695,788 but had only approximately $59,579,413 in its bank accounts.• Ray Bitar personally received at least $41 million, including at least $34,454,781.53 in ownership distributions and at least an additional $6.5 million in“profit sharing” payments.
• Howard Lederer personally received at least approximately $42 million, including approximately $37,856,010.92 in ownership distributions and at least $4 million in “profit sharing” payments.
• Chris Ferguson was allocated approximately $85,161,305.88 in distributions. Tiltware records reflect that approximately $25 million of this sum was actually transferred to Ferguson’s personal accounts, with the remaining balance characterized as “owed” to Ferguson.
• Rafe Furst received at least $11,706,323.96 in distributions.
• The other approximately 19 owners of Tiltware LLC received the remainder of the approximately $443,860,530 distributed. For example, a professional poker player and Full Tilt Poker owner received at least approximately $40,078,646.64 in distributions, as well millions of dollars characterized as loans from Full Tilt Poker. At least approximately $4.4 million of these loans have not been repaid.
Preet Bharara's Comments
The Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara also publicly claimed that Full Tilt Poker and its board operated the company as "a massive Ponzi scheme against its own players." In his statement he said that "Full Tilt was not a legitimate poker company, but a global Ponzi scheme."According to Wikipedia, a Ponzi scheme is "a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation."
Bharara's statement continued that the company "cheated and abused its own players to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars... insiders lined their own pockets with funds picked from the pockets of their most loyal customers while blithely lying to both players and the public alike about the safety and security of the money deposited with the company."
As always, PokerStrategy.com will keep you informed as all developments related to this situation arise.
Update 20/09/2011: Tom Dwan TwoPlusTwo Thread
Tom 'Durrrr' Dwan has created a thread answering questions on the TwoPlusTwo forums.
He spent six hours in total answering questions, during which he confirmed:
• He knew about the extent of the issues for several months, but signed a Non Disclosure Agreement. A friend of his went to Ireland with a view to investing in Full Tilt, and signed the NDA in relation to that, he wasn't asked separately to sign one.
• Confirmed that Full Tilt never turned down an investment offer that would have covered player fund and legal liabilities.
• Has confirmed he will honor the $1 million he pledged to pay back players by Hanukkah 2012, probably much sooner. He will give the money to a liquidator, no preferential treatment will be given to certain players, and the process will be transparent.
• He was paid just over $1 million by Full Tilt, and currently owes them a figure less than that.
• Never had a profit share/equity deal in the company.
• Thinks that Full Tilt Pros should give some of their profits back to the players.
• Still considers Phil Ivey a friend, and agreed with his actions.
• Has not spoke to Rafe Furst, Chris Ferguson, or Ray Bitar since April 18. Has spoke to Howard Lederer, he doesn't trust him but as yet hasn't been outright lied to by him (To the best of his knowledge).
• Was asked several times to post his contract on the forum, but refused to.
• Will be doing several interviews in the coming days.
Update 21/09/2011: Rafe Furst's Attorney
David Angeli, attorney for Rafe Furst has stated “Mr. Furst hasn’t done anything wrong. He always acted in what he believed was the best interest of players and anyone associated with Full Tilt." So far, he is the only legal representative of the four men involved in yesterday's revelations to make any comment.
Update 21/09/2011: AGCC Statement Within 24 Hours?
According to CalvinAyre.com, a statement is expected to appear on the AGCC website in the next 24 hours, as their hearing in London is drawing to a close. This was apparantly confirmed in a phone call with the AGCC today.
Update 21/09/2011: Tom Dwan Interviews
PokerNews.com conducted an interview with Tom Dwan yesterday which they published today. It doesn't really divulge any new information that wasn't in his twoplustwo thread listed earlier. However he does elaborate on a few of the earlier points made.
He referred to some of the owners of Full Tilt as scumbags, and vindicated his own position by reminding us that he did not attempt to bribe Simon Watt in their 2010 WSOP heads-up match (which Dwan lost) to win his extremely lucrative bracelet bet.
And just this moment, Dwan has appeared on Fox News, rejecting claims that Full Tilt is a Ponzi scheme:
Update 21/09/2011: Rafe Furst Blogs
Rafe Furst, a Full Tilt pro and minority owner who was added to the US DOJ's complaint yesterday, has released an open letter on his blog in which he states he has nothing to hide and feels he has done nothing wrong.
Here is the complete statement:
By now you’ve no doubt heard about the allegations against me in a Federal civil suit regarding Full Tilt Poker. Because of the seriousness of the allegations I’m not able to comment at all about the pending case, much as I would like to. From a moral, personal and interpersonal perspective I feel I’ve got nothing to hide. And since I trust in our system of justice and have the utmost respect for my legal counsel, I will refrain from talking about the case until it’s resolved.
What I would like to express here is concern for my family, friends, colleagues and supporters who believe in me and who feel my pain as if it were their own. It sucks to have to endure the character assassination and potshots being taken at me in the media and social networks without being able to defend myself. Privately though I have received incredible support from many of you, and I can’t tell you how much it means to me. May you never have to endure something like this, but if you do, I hope you have friends as good as mine.
To the skeptics, please consider that not everything you read is true, and our society is built on a presumption of innocence until proven otherwise. It’s difficult to take back hurtful things that you might later regret, when the damage has already been done.
To those of you who have asked what you can do to show your support, I am grateful for the offer. My only request at this time would be to not let the naysayers and haters be the only voices out there expressing their opinion of me. My twitter is @rafefurst, and I’d love to hear from you publicly.
With Respect and Love,
Rafe
by Matt Kaufman and Barry Carter



#1
Heffron89, 20 Sep 11 16:39
Guess thats it, there is no fking way this can recover.#2
NickLemonparty, 20 Sep 11 16:44
I suppose, that this is all over, unfortunately..Sick.
#3
baisuoklis, 20 Sep 11 16:46
Looks like its time to say bye bye to mine bankroll :-)#4
Lazar69, 20 Sep 11 16:48
why dont they yust write will we get our money back or not?!?!?!#5
boboistina, 20 Sep 11 16:51
"The complaint states that Full Tilt's owners paid themselves "approximately $445,860,529.89""hahahahahahahahahaha, unbelievable, hope they get locked up and become girlfriends buffed nasty prisoners serving life sentences.
#6
simoska, 20 Sep 11 16:53
$445,860,529.89??? and they cant pay me back my 500 dollars....#7
JuiceQuadre, 20 Sep 11 17:00
sick shit#8
AaronLambert, 20 Sep 11 17:03
oh boy#9
furculision, 20 Sep 11 17:07
can someone explain what does "paid themselves" mean? :(#10
floyd777, 20 Sep 11 17:10
guess $107 bye bye :(#11
pinkplasticpony, 20 Sep 11 17:14
Seriously though who gives a fuck about a few $100.. think more of the people who have $1000's in there.. I wished they would just tell us if there is a realistic chance of getting us money back.!And where has this money gone? Have they been wiping their arses with it?!
Lock um all up for life..!
#12
datsmahname, 20 Sep 11 17:20
FTP uses poor BRM skills, goes busto. True story.#13
v3rc3tt1, 20 Sep 11 17:20
@9 paid in form of dividents I guesscorrect me if i'm wrong
#14
noisecore, 20 Sep 11 17:20
#11Boats, houses, other investments probably.
#15
noisecore, 20 Sep 11 17:20
#13that's correct
#16
datsmahname, 20 Sep 11 17:24
@#9... its like "gave themselves" except it implies they did some type of work in exchange for the money.#17
boboistina, 20 Sep 11 17:26
so that's why they couldnt find an investor#18
W4lrusk4ne, 20 Sep 11 17:29
LoL stealing 445 million and getting a fine off 42, 25 and 12 million is quite EV+ crime pays huge...#19
XxMatadorExX, 20 Sep 11 17:42
4,500$ Fkc It, plus 150.000K FTPoints That can convert to cash and merchandise! Already gave up on that! Hope they all pay for what they did and everything gets regulated from now on. Funny how they would play High Stakes Poker on TV with our bankrolls and get creative and show off w/any 2! Obviously!! Who wouldnt! Fkn cheaters#20
svendeucer, 20 Sep 11 17:46
hmm? dishonest poker players.? well i've seen it all now. seriously though thought howard was smart enough to distance himself legally from the mess but i guess he called that gutshot on the turn.#21
fishlock, 20 Sep 11 18:16
RIP FTP Roll#22
vidrata, 20 Sep 11 18:20
I guess, when Bernard L. Madoff receiver 150 year, the FTP representatives will receiver similar sentence for their Ponzi scheme.There will a high stakes session live from Pelican bay.
#23
usete, 20 Sep 11 18:21
OWNED#24
GIOMi6, 20 Sep 11 18:35
FTP into oblivion#25
Leito99, 20 Sep 11 18:52
wow.. so there is just nothing we can do about it? .. it was that easy for them to steal our money? :/#26
Luupainaja, 20 Sep 11 18:55
"100%First DepositBonus
Make your first deposit at Full Tilt Poker and we'll automatically match your initial deposit with a 100% bonus up to $600!"
"paid themselves $443,860,529.89"
We got pwned hard
#27
Heffron89, 20 Sep 11 19:00
FTPonzischeme :(#28
JBCD71, 20 Sep 11 19:01
Seems to be Howard and Chris and who knows who stole the players money and think they are above the law.Pay the players thier money.Know wonder we dont see thier faces anymore.LMAO. Scoundrels i say.#29
diatonicide, 20 Sep 11 19:11
banks do the same every day#30
miljonszalie, 20 Sep 11 19:20
lol @ #28#31
miljonszalie, 20 Sep 11 19:21
sry, I mean lol @ #29#32
kaslaugn, 20 Sep 11 19:26
wow, just ... wow ...#33
nathanrenard, 20 Sep 11 19:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jUBbCgMWmE#34
Mirlanda, 20 Sep 11 19:28
I am going to hunt down these bitches, gonna be the law abiding citizen:p seriously wtf were they thinking, hope they all will be locked up for a long time w the brothers, f assholes#35
aciddrop, 20 Sep 11 19:29
"As of March 31, 2011, Full Tilt Poker owed players from around the world over approximately $390,695,788 but had only approximately $59,579,413 in its bank accounts."Don't hold your breath.
#36
Mirlanda, 20 Sep 11 19:29
Lol Nathan gtfo:)#37
taavi1337, 20 Sep 11 19:35
Great news! Bye-bye $1.2k, you were just numbers anyways#38
pavels4444, 20 Sep 11 19:56
Are you Fking kidding me?I hope Lederer and others get raped in prison for what they've done. How come PS has no problems? FTP coulve become the world leading platform if it wasn't for these cheaters in management...
I'm lucky I withdrew all my bankroll (over 2K) couple days before this happened. I feel for you guys.
Bye bye Rush :(
#39
Heffron89, 20 Sep 11 19:59
#38 Pokerstars is developing a form of rush poker so u know..#40
idiopatic, 20 Sep 11 20:08
i don't think they will do any jail time as long as the DOJ only wants money#41
Tudazul, 20 Sep 11 20:15
RIP ftp. :(#42
dasilva19db, 20 Sep 11 20:16
I guess we all deserve this. We like to gamble our money. Who can honestly say that the other poker platforms don't have the same problems, and don't just play with our money? Stars, party, ipoker... Maybe they're all ponzies... But we keep on playing and depositing and then we complain on blogs and forums. Maybe we should all think about all this for a sec#43
kasparsozolins, 20 Sep 11 20:18
Just nice?#44
pavels4444, 20 Sep 11 20:37
#42Stars has it as a policy that they keep player's funds separately from their company ones :) FTP didn't
I think Stars is really doing the business properly with bunch of promotions and new tourneys etc..
#45
kirezafirov, 20 Sep 11 20:45
We together all players from hole world if it's possible that have bankrolls at FTP have to complaint FTP and close this guys in prison.#46
tehChipDonk, 20 Sep 11 20:55
they must be having lots of fun with our money#47
glavaoo7, 20 Sep 11 21:03
everything pays back i think sombody will hurt them realy bad!#48
BoyRobot777, 20 Sep 11 21:18
hehe.. and thats it. They stole these money from us, and all they will do is pay some bills to the goverment and run away with thier planes and jachts... this is lol. Just shows how world REALLY is in favor of ordinary people like us.. just lol... they can fuck who ever they want.. like George Carlin said-"you have no rights only privileges, and those privileges can be taken really fast and easily" bye bye my 2 years of poker...#49
Vygantas82, 20 Sep 11 21:29
I hope one day all those scam sites will be shut down. One day. Just maybe.#50
pavels4444, 20 Sep 11 21:45
#49 which ones do you mean? FTP? wait, it already is#51
boboistina, 20 Sep 11 21:51
no dont convict the, seize all there assets make them homeless and have them beg for food and money. Make them wear clothes on which is written "Hi im Ray Bitar (for others too) i stole 450M from people on Fulltiltpoker", so they wont recieve any money or food from people and get eat up by anyone who had money on fulltilt and sees them.#52
boboistina, 20 Sep 11 21:52
beat up*#53
pavels4444, 20 Sep 11 22:39
Jesus was a good guy .... oh wait#54
tehChipDonk, 20 Sep 11 22:44
even though these scumbags will get beaten and raped in jail, their families will live forever with these huge amount of cash. but for average joes like us, we and our families will always and continue to suffer without the money we worked so hard for in our pockets#55
PAOKHAWK, 20 Sep 11 22:44
Why not lock all of them in a prison and share their fortune to the people they stole...??Oh wait the laws are not the same for all people.Millionaires can steal legally!!#56
Ramble, 21 Sep 11 00:00
WOW - I was staying positive this whole time, thinking that it wasn't really that bad and that an investor would come in and save the day, and I'd see my bankroll again...I've given up on that now... Man I hate Greed... no reason at all why they couldn't have been legit and still made some decent coin...
#57
MathhNes, 21 Sep 11 00:29
I didnt lose much money since i got to cash out just before they closed, but damn i think this is super sad for all the players that had a lot of money there.Really i think this should be a big crime how they actually managed OTHER PLAYERS' MONEY! They deserve to go to prison for this, those who are responsible. 400 million dollars what the... Where are all the money they earned? For christ sake it is not possible that they miss exactly the amount of player's money, where did the rest go -.-
#58
MathhNes, 21 Sep 11 00:42
Durr says on % getting money back: "id definitely take 20-1 that ftp pays out right now. i think its a bit >10% but wouldn't take 10-1 b/c i've already got an insane amount riding on it."#59
ManoloB99, 21 Sep 11 00:43
There is NO missing money. The company owes $390M to its poker players named as depositors. The company has only $59.5M in its bank accounts. The company also distributed already over $444M to its owners (presumably as dividends) to the tune of around $4.4M per 1% ownership.As the government complaint already states, this is a classical Ponzi scheme. The owners took out so much money from depositors to enrich themselves that they needed other people to deposit in order to meet the obligations from other depositors who were withdrawing the funds. They were going to collapse sooner or later, even if the government didn't intervene.
End of story and company and no possibility to recover 100% of funds, although maybe something like 20c or 30c to the dollar could still be possible. Depends on how much the lawyers and the government take of what is left.
#60
dochazard, 21 Sep 11 00:58
So whatever happened to the AGCC hearing? What statement will they release now? GREEDY SOBs.#61
Justin37, 21 Sep 11 02:42
new investors need at $500 MiLLIONto pay player money, fix FTP image...
Is there any INSANE rich guy out there wanna do it?
Obviously, sayonara to my BR
#62
StyleAni, 21 Sep 11 04:04
So what they say about FTP? Is there some investor or it's going to end just with the lawsuits and with the "bad guys" being in prison???#63
coreynz, 21 Sep 11 04:20
so the charge summary still says pokerstars is being done for fraud?is that correct?can stars still go down?dont quite get it....#64
jduncan, 21 Sep 11 05:24
has lederer and ferguson left the U S yet?they have alot of money to run and hide and i havent seen them lately on tv.i hope all this doesnt ruin online poker but it kinda has how can any player from anywhere in the world feel confident that thier favorite sight isnt just the same(ponzi scheme)and that OUR money isnt going straight into some ceo's pocket.#65
viol3ta, 21 Sep 11 05:30
why FTP is not in the Wikipedia notable Ponzi scheme list? I had 8$ there :((#66
zobupasts, 21 Sep 11 05:55
#65 "..I had 8$ there :(( "Fcuk your burger money!
I can just imagine how tiltings comments like these must be for people who have tens of thousands stuck there.
#67
yuppio, 21 Sep 11 05:55
pipeles !!!!111#68
andreibalint, 21 Sep 11 06:19
owners paid themselves "approximately $443,860,529.89"- no problem if it's legit (from the profit).
Full Tilt Poker owed players from around the world over approximately $390,695,788 but had only approximately $59,579,413 in its bank accounts.
- everyone who made this happen deserve massive ass rape in the shittiest prison there is.
Go find investors for 300mil lol.
BTW, who's that stupid that moves all bankroll from Stars to FTP just before the shit storm happened? :(
#69
Tudazul, 21 Sep 11 07:08
#53 lol, nice one, hahaha#70
Azzazzelo001, 21 Sep 11 07:49
And do you think that other poker sites are based on different schemes as the ponzi? They are all rigged...#71
SgtSplode, 21 Sep 11 07:55
Good thing Chris Ferguson has all that facial-hair.He can hide behind it.
#72
MojaDunja, 21 Sep 11 08:13
FTP --> GAME OVER. imo#73
w34z3l, 21 Sep 11 09:31
goodbye $400#74
Cealin, 21 Sep 11 10:07
And on top of that we are all bronze again since FTP crashed.#75
kirezafirov, 21 Sep 11 10:08
what happened on the hearing. Did Fulltilt get there licence or what.#76
boboistina, 21 Sep 11 10:21
is there a chance that at least part of the stolen money will be seized from scumbags and returned to FTP accounts so we can at least get some % of our rolls back?#77
Heffron89, 21 Sep 11 10:22
#75 they will get it back when they can show they have 300 million dollar in their bank account to cover players funds, which is pretty much impossible as they are flatout broke.#78
kirezafirov, 21 Sep 11 10:30
they get 400m in there bank accounts. If they want they can repay all players :D#79
kirezafirov, 21 Sep 11 10:30
The complaint states that Full Tilt's owners paid themselves "approximately $443,860,529.89" and includes specific penalties that each of the 3 new defendants are facing: ~$42 million for Lederer, ~$25 million for Ferguson, and ~$12 million for Furst.#80
kirezafirov, 21 Sep 11 10:32
DOJ should seize this money at their bank accounts and return to players.#81
hypertyper, 21 Sep 11 10:38
Oh wow! You would think that there are laws against this regarding the amount of money they have to have in order to be allowed to operate.#82
pavels4444, 21 Sep 11 11:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3XEfcBQyy4now it applies more than ever
#83
LimburgCwboy, 21 Sep 11 11:01
I think the only way FTP could be saved (apart from an investor) is, if the DOJ has the possibility to seize the 444 million the paid themselves, puts it back in the FTP accounts and pay the players.However, as the DOJ also sees this money as being whitewashed etc., they won't do that, thus screwing the 'normal' players on there.
As for an investor, if he has the money (and is honest), I think FTP could be a very profit-bringing investment. But the longer this is taking the harder it will become.
#84
Heffron89, 21 Sep 11 11:11
#83 do u really think they didn´t spend that money?#85
Heffron89, 21 Sep 11 11:12
Plus the payouts started 2007 which is almost 5 years ago.#86
janushr, 21 Sep 11 11:17
so much about fairness and correct deals...whats with others???who is 100% sure that they also dont scamm...i would like to seee players gaether and prosecute scums from FTP(chris,howard and co)even for 8,400,1000 or 10000$,all combined,sent them into jail suite w 150kg biatch servin life,so they enjoy rest of life...me personally,for myself and my friend,when and whenever see them,you will be watchin that in evening news,and reccomend to all,when saw scums,dont hesitate,ENJOY!!!#87
illium, 21 Sep 11 11:18
Most regulator require that their Licensees keep players balances in a separate visible account obviously AGCC didn't require or enforce that. Some of the money paid out to shareholders should be recoverable, otherwise they should be going to jail. I suspect that most of the payouts were invested and a lot of it was lost during the early days of the credit crunch and is therefore unrecoverable. By my calculations if all the funds were recovered the shareholders would still be up to the tune of $110M Time to pay up or flush your reputation down the drain FTP shareholders?#88
janushr, 21 Sep 11 11:20
and if somebody have some adress,mails,phone,mobile numbers and other stuff,where can be reached,please,make it private;)#89
janushr, 21 Sep 11 11:21
#87 u make me laugh,sry...WAKE UP,DUDE,MONEY IS LONG GONE1!!!#90
lort8, 21 Sep 11 11:59
hwo come are they still alive?#91
PokerAddict36, 21 Sep 11 12:02
Lets make sure these bastards en family have to watch their backs the rest of their misarable lives#92
Laiwinsh, 21 Sep 11 12:17
Hope that this will force liquidity checks for all Poker rooms around...#93
boboistina, 21 Sep 11 12:18
"Customer funds are not segregated from company funds, but it is the intention of Filco Ltd to meet its liabilities as they fall due."Guess we all know why now.
#94
illium, 21 Sep 11 12:24
I understand that all the money is probably gone. But where are they going to hide? All their money is going to buy them is expensive hotels and expensive hookers. I think you misapprehend the global aspect of this situation. There is no country where they can hide. If anyone is hiding in Ireland for example, a plane will land at a remote airport and they will get a one way ticket back to the US, courtesy of disgruntled Irish players.#95
Heffron89, 21 Sep 11 12:26
#93 that was known even before they shut down for non us players, hence the reason i cashed out#96
illium, 21 Sep 11 12:31
#93 the AGCC have several types of license One is nominated as secured which does mean segregated accounts.Unfortunately this was not made mandatory but some other licenseeswill have secured status and would be a better place to deposit funds. In future I believe all licenses will have to be secured as standard, otherwise no one will deposit. It's a hard lesson for us all.
#97
boboistina, 21 Sep 11 12:38
Yea i know it was know a long time ago, i'm just saying now we know why it was that way, so they can fill their pockets.#98
BOBOsvk, 21 Sep 11 12:51
FTP is run by poker players. They bluffed us on the river lol#99
BOBOsvk, 21 Sep 11 12:52
Well, FTP ->WAS<- ran by poker players :D#100
drawback, 21 Sep 11 13:18
http://www.cardking.info/artikel.asp?id=214sweet house :D
#101
pavaka, 21 Sep 11 13:19
wow i actually lost trust in online poker if the 2nd biggest poker room in the world is shady i dont want to think about the others#102
rhezz, 21 Sep 11 13:22
When Girah scammed other players for 30k, he was tortured and destroyed in the poker forums.Lederer, Ferguson, Bitar, etc stole millions from all of us and it seems that most replies here are just making fun of the situation or saying that those guys should be in jail.
To me, it doesnt make any sense! This is a lot worse than what Girah did and the level of hate and numberof annyoed people is far lower.
Can someone explain me why?!
It's like the crook on the street that mugged an old lady and goes to jail, compared to the lawyer that steals millions and manages to avoid justice.
#103
Johnis, 21 Sep 11 13:26
This is just a collapse of another financial institution. If banks collapse, they are never liquid enough to repay everything immediately. Usually, government comes in and pays off. However, in this case, I'm pretty sure nobody is going to step up to clean up the shit.It'll be interesting how the shareholders work everything out - obviously they don't want to give up the assets they got for free. Do you think they will get some jail experience ? I don't know about USA, but I guess that having this much money they should be able to bribe the lawyers and still have something left in their pockets.
#104
Tim64, 21 Sep 11 14:13
When I try to open FTP, I just get continual loading screen. Is there some problem with the software or something?[groan]
#105
kirezafirov, 21 Sep 11 14:18
that is the case from 29 of june when their licence was suspended.#106
tiagofmadeira, 21 Sep 11 14:19
After the Black friday the amount of BAAADDD BEATS increased due to the fact that the site had to generete rake com conpensate for the huge debts it had. But even then they knew they were unable to pay customers. I always loved those rush BULS*** WEEKS and the TAKE TWO (Bad beats) promotions. Whenever those started my bad bests started two (SET over Set over Sets, Quads vs FH etc etc...). All they had to do was alter a parameter and away we go.. FULL BULLSHªª FCKªªªªª POKER.#107
staktas, 21 Sep 11 14:25
#106 idiot.......#108
zobupasts, 21 Sep 11 14:27
#106 Facepalm.#109
boboistina, 21 Sep 11 14:48
give those baaaastards to us please, we'll prosecute and convict them.#110
SPeedFANat1c, 21 Sep 11 15:23
I respected guys like chris ferguson, but now I hope someone kill all of them who stole players money. Or bring them to the jail where they get raped hard until they die.#101 +1
I wonder how long will they be hiding? You cannot be hiding the rest of life.
#111
Roxalon, 21 Sep 11 15:43
^ I second this!#112
nuteLka, 21 Sep 11 19:33
I would sell every single thing these guys own , maybe one kidney, give these money back to players, put them in cell each with horny black guy and len someone buy the site for cheap prize to make a profit and give the rest back even to US players... this would be justice at least 4 me, we should sign petition ...#113
boboistina, 21 Sep 11 22:09
#112 all you're suggesting is spot on i hope they do it this way, but it it just seems improbale#114
blackaces82, 21 Sep 11 22:52
"bad decisions, bad investments"--> so ftp gambled with our money on the finacial markets and got rivered...
#115
blackaces82, 21 Sep 11 22:53
@ #104: dunno, i can login without any problems#116
Fubu27, 21 Sep 11 23:06
#101Was thinking the same thing. I mean, at least if they gave back a smaller amount of players' bankrolls then we could continue from there in another poker room.
But really? If the second biggest poker room was not trust worthy then where are we left at?
#117
churchilland, 22 Sep 11 00:37
Published just 2 hours ago:http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/poker-site-fires-back-over-ponzi-scheme-charge/?scp=2&sq=full tilt]&st=cse
Poker site fires back over ponzi scheme charge