After the Flop: An Opponent Has Initiative
by Hasenbraten
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Video to the Article
Introduction
In this article we will cover...
why you should play made hands aggressively
when you can play strong draws aggressively / when to play according to the pot odds
why you need a big hand to play f…
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#1
andyb43, 14 Jan 09 13:27
Some of the suggested bets seem to ignore the concept of pot odds?#2
abotond, 16 Mar 09 10:59
I think we can talk about pot odds if you have to call a raise.The bets seen here are between 1/2-2/3 of the pot size.
#3
Gabinr1, 12 Aug 09 12:12
Excellent article! Ty#4
jvdonder, 19 Oct 09 18:36
I dont know if I would fold on the last example as he could easily be bluffing or think that he isnt bluffing if he is holding the 5 or a pair of 6's - 8's. I dont see how he would make the call post-flop with a pair of 2's even if he had Thee of a kind with a pocket pair of 5's or 3's whould he really risk slow playing them against the flush draw and could he really have called with pot odds at that stage, if he thought I had the straight post-flop.I would appreciate any comment for my mind to digest. TY#5
samymanole, 15 Dec 09 10:55
In the last example, I would've call with 99 because I have a full house too an he could bet with a full house made with 3 or 5.#6
Koshburger, 15 Jan 10 12:31
ok#7
shumacher96, 20 Jul 10 02:28
This is a great article but on example #29 and #19 he saids u shouldn't risk your stack on these hands but yet in both you have a medium full house and a strong full house in #29, so why wouldn't you go all in? Can someone plz answer my question.#8
Dostje19, 05 Aug 10 13:09
i do not understand the last example aswell... Defenitaly a call there...#9
PaTaPaTaPoNn, 27 Oct 10 03:23
because your opponent might have higher pair than yours like JJin my experience if opponent bet like the example he usually had it
#10
Vycka73, 01 Dec 10 18:56
I don't understand last example too.. Only TT-AA, 33, 55 beat us.. But he cheked turn, that means:a) he have draw and want to see a cheap river
b) he have 3 or 5 but he needs small pot becouse his hand isn't enough for big pots
c) if he have TT-AA he makes mistake becouse he give free card for draws.
d) he have 55 or 33 (full house) and making a trap.
So in my opinion on river he dont have TT-AA, maybe he bluffs with not completed draw, maybe he wants to take a pot with full house (holding 3 or 5) and also he can value bet with nuts (33 or 55).
Finally, i guess that we need to make call. Please tell me if im wrong.
P.s. Im forgot smallest pairs than us like 77 or 88, but thats another reason to call, because we beat them.
#11
jozata, 13 Jan 11 09:41
@7 In example 19 it is said to shove the turn not to fold.#12
mastera11, 18 Mar 11 12:13
In several examples we are BU and call a raise coming from CO with midpair, why not 3-betting?#13
machine85, 31 Mar 11 12:26
I agree with all above just about you simply dont fold here often enough to write it in an article.#14
Harnas31, 09 Jul 11 10:56
I play microstakes.Example 25
River decision:
I have Invested 14 $ so far.
I believe that on such texture set is beaten.
If i have passive opponent should i still bet and hope he will check or bet small , or should i still bet ?
This idea about betting because of negative freeroll is unusual for me. I cant agree that I have to bet here.
It looks for me that it doesn’t matter if it is *8 scary card or blank on the river. I should bet ?
This doesn’t make sense for me.
Example 28
Here article says: check – there is no talking about negative freeroll.
I think example 25 is more serious , more dangerous for us and there should be check as well on the river.
Example 29
So you think he raised with 55 or 33 and now has a bigger full house ?
I can agree –and even if he has 88, 77 in microstakes I think bet on the river would be much smaller with lower pair.
I would fold because I haven’t invested much – I read turn x us trap, he wasn’t scare of raise on flop, and bets river – I believe I am beaten.
thank you
#15
hasenbraten, 12 Jul 11 12:47
Well try to follow the argumentation. Assume you are ahead. If you check it gets checked through and you loose 11$ since ur opponent can be expected to call like everything for 11 into a total pot of 50$ (like AJ, AA and the like). Assume you check and he bets. Then you are the one getting 11 into 50 total. Will you just check/fold it? what if once in a while he valuebets worse like said AA or JT.If that does not convince you, im sorry :-(
What exactly is it in "The river card leaves you with no other option than checking. True, only two gutshot draws may have completed, but there is nothing to be accomplished with another bet. The weaker hands won't call, the better ones won't be pushed out." you dont buy?
you cant compare 25 to 28, the situation is entirely different...
This example needs to be changed, should already have happened in the german version - its about the initial flopraise which is bad. Aside from that the river is just a fold because we expect to be beat here, if its TT+ or something else doesnt matter a lot
#16
churchilland, 20 Oct 11 18:57
on example 11 - according to pot odds you should fold, so I'm curious if this is not a mistake in article?#17
churchilland, 20 Oct 11 19:59
I tkin people dont get that in last example oponet can have too a pair but since your is just 99 he as agressor from preflop can have a bigger pair