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[NL2-NL10] Overpair+Gutter on V.Wet Flop facing Check-Raise

    • Deomedes
      Joined: 12.11.2011 Posts: 156
      With the guy we had play around 50 hands before the hand and he had not 3bet preflop yet but post flop he was playing aggressively 17,6/11,6/75/4.5 (VPIP/PFR/AFq/TAF).

      PartyGaming - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BB: $23.00
      Hero (UTG): $11.70
      BTN: $5.60
      SB: $10.53

      SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Q:diamond: Q:heart:

      Hero raises to $0.30, fold, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.90, 3 players) J:club: 8:spade: T:club:
      SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.64, SB raises to $2.31, fold, Hero raises to $5.84, SB raises to $10.23 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.39

      Turn: ($21.36, 2 players) K:spade:

      River: ($21.36, 2 players) Q:spade:

      Hero shows Q:diamond: Q:heart: (Three of a Kind, Queens) (Pre 83%, Flop 23%, Turn 23%)SB mucks J:diamond: J:heart: (Three of a Kind, Jacks) (Pre 17%, Flop 77%, Turn 77%)Hero wins $20.36

      My thoughts during the hand were that i was more likely facing a pair+draw, two pairs, sets, AJ, Overcards+FD. Ofcourse, i couldn't figure my exact equity but i thought there were TOO MANY cards i didn't want to see on the turn like A,K,J,9,7 any club and that with the dead money my equity wasn't going to be that bad. My thinking process got me to think that if i shove i get called only by better hands so i have to charge a draw but not fold it.

      I estimate now his range for check raising like this JJ-88,AJs,Q9s,J8s+,T8s+,98s,AcKc,AcQc,KcQc,Ac8c,AJo,JTo
      though many hands like J8s ,A8s ,JTo, are little too loose for his vpip. Vs that range i am coinflipping with slight advantage.

      His range for calling and shoving i think is likely the same since he is aggressive enough to do it. I think his range when he 4bets is JJ-TT,88,AJs,Q9s,J8s+,T8s,AcKc,AcQc,KcQc,Ac8c,AJo,JTo
      vs which i flip with slight disadvantage.

      I think that my gutter made the hand being played WAY more easily than without it . So I would like thoughts for the best play with out the gutter,also.

      Your thoughts after the check-raise guys?
  • 2 replies
    • veriz
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Deomedes,

      This is definitely one of the worst boards ever to start 3betting light here cause our hand is really weak and you rarely going to be far-far ahead. You at the best just vs some combos draw. Which means that actually we have pretty easy Bet/Fold on the flop, especially vs a nitty guy.

      Best Regards.
    • Deomedes
      Joined: 12.11.2011 Posts: 156
      The point is that vs a range as tight as JJ-TT,88,AJs,Q9s,JTs,J8s,T8s,AcKc,AcQc,AJo i am coin-flipping.

      I don't know, i've made nitty guys shove over me with A high+Flush Draws, with AJ on AQ6r etc. OK I have to admit dynamics were different. SPR was lower after preflop 3bet (and two calls) plus i got shoved not just raised after a cbet in position having already create the right aggressive image.

      Here it was a single raised pot and my hand was more faced up with no such dynamics , but how can i exclude AJ? I mean he would not love to see many of the cards i do not want to see either so a check-raise vs a standard cbet is not overplaying in that flop.

      I have to admit that i totally excluded folding in that spot during the hand. I thought that i might had to call. But then the call made me think i was going to fold a lot on the turn. On the other way, now i see the 3bet as a raise that isolated me vs the top of his range.

      I still struggle to understand the bet fold line, though. If opponents start to fold to my raises on these flops with overpairs+gutter i just found a way to be rich!

      But you might be right my line might have made more sense with different table dynamics. Like the SPR being lower and me having some aggressive history with the guy. Or with reads that he could stack-off with a draw or overplay Top pair kind of hands.

      Thnx Veriz, i have work to do!