[NL20-NL50] Nl20 Sh - Qq

    • ratex
      ratex
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.11.2007 Posts: 2,795
      Titan Poker 0.10/0.20, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

      saw flop | saw showdown

      Button ($29.86)
      SB Hero ($20.18)
      BB ($20.00)
      UTG UTG ($19.77)
      UTG+1 ($7.12)

      Preflop: Hero is in the SB with Q:heart: Q:club:
      UTG raises to 0.60, 2 folds, Hero raises to 1.80, 1 fold, UTG calls 1.20.

      Flop (3.90) 7:club: 8:spade: T:diamond:
      Hero bets 3.00, UTG raises to 9.00, Hero calls 6.00.

      Turn (21.90) 7:spade:
      Hero moves all-in for 9.38, UTG moves all-in for 8.97.

      River (40.25) A:heart:
  • 9 replies
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      Hi ratex,

      preflop is fine.
      on the flop I think I would just shove after his reraise. You are oop and if you just call you are commited on the turn anyways.
      He's most likely holding TT/JJ here or if it's a very bad player he might hold 77/88/AT. KK/AA is very unlikely.

      Best regards,
      Chiller3k
    • ratex
      ratex
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.11.2007 Posts: 2,795
      He's a very bed player... he was holding QTo... ;)
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Originally posted by Chiller3k
      Hi ratex,

      preflop is fine.
      on the flop I think I would just shove after his reraise. You are oop and if you just call you are commited on the turn anyways.
      He's most likely holding TT/JJ here or if it's a very bad player he might hold 77/88/AT. KK/AA is very unlikely.

      Best regards,
      Chiller3k
      Why would he be very bad if he held 77 or 88 ?
      He openraised UTG which is ok short handed (real position is MP3) and he's offered a 1.2 $ price to call with 2.7 $ already in the pot and 17.97 $ still to win. That's a ca. 18:1 ratio to call for set value in position.
      You'd be a fool to fold it.
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      SonicXT, I think there's a mistake in your calculation!
      you hit you set one time out of 8.
      But if you hit, you won't always win the opponents stack! So calling is wrong imo.
      If you argue like that a 2$ preflop call with a small pocket pair would also be right since you can still win 18$ if you hit. Invsting 2$ to win 20$ = 1/10 odds and odds you need to call: 1/8.
      Or is there a mistake in my thoughts?
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      He alraedy invested 60 cents so his new investment to make the call for set value in position is only 1.2 $.
      1.2 $ to call with 19.7 $ stacks amounts to a 16.5 to 1 ratio.
      This ratio is only made better because there's already some dead money in the pot. However the odds of stacking are a bit lower because it's heads up.

      Pokerstrategy now suggest at least a 20 to 1 ratio, though other less conservative sites argue a ratio of 12-15 to 1 are also sufficient (PokerStrategy also used the 15 to 1 ratio initially until it realized most new players aren't good enough postflop to make the 15 to 1 call for set value EV+ as it requires some skill to make it profitable)

      I am never, ever folding any pocket pair to that raise with these remaining stacks for set value ...
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      I still don't think you win the stack of your opponent often enough to make the call profitable.
      You are saying you _always_ win the stack of your opponent. And I doubt that.
      Im not a hand judge but that's my personal experience
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      16.5 to 1 doesn't necessitate at all that you always have to stack your opponent . At this level, it happens more than enough though in my view.
      Either way, it's just how nitty you'd like to play I think, but calling a player who player who calls this pf with 7's or 8's a very bad player was kind of insulting for me personally :D
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      okay then I apologise for that ;)
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      If player is tag, then I consider bet/folding flop.
      But against lag- shove it all-in on the flop.