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What are here the worst stack-off-hands....

    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,994
      a.) for SB
      b.) for UTG
      ?

      Plz imagine that game would have been 6-way and Co would be MP!

      we have following infos:

      BTN is a semifish.

      UTG
      oR UTG: 19%
      4b UTG: 3,6/2,5
      Fold to 5b: 38%

      MP:
      Coldcall MP: 7%

      SB:
      25/22
      SQZ overall: 9,6%
      Fold to 4b: 62%

      So what can SB sqz/Jam vs UTG here?
      - what can he sqz/Jam vs. MP, when UTG folds and MP 4bets?
      - what can UTG 4b/Call here for value vs. SB?
      - do you think it is a spot where UTG can/should bluff4b a lot?
  • 3 replies
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,994
      edit:

      fuck, have forgotten to include the weaktight-link to the hand.

      situation has been:
      UTG has opened from UTG to 3BB -> MP has coldcalled -> SB has squeezed ...

      and regards to this situation the 3 questions are referring...
    • alderfalder
      alderfalder
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 16.01.2010 Posts: 2,000

      So what can SB sqz/Jam vs UTG here?
      - what can he sqz/Jam vs. MP, when UTG folds and MP 4bets?
      - what can UTG 4b/Call here for value vs. SB?
      - do you think it is a spot where UTG can/should bluff4b a lot?


      I start with MP to figure this out. I just made some assumptions to having the chance of getting a "solution" for this scenario.
      I assume MP is one of these guys not 3betting anything against UTG (you can take some other coldcalling range with discounted AA/KK as well, but I like the easy way...), so I gave him the range

      MP:
      77+JTs+,AQo+,AJs+ (96kombos)
      just to keep in mynd:
      QQ+,AK= 34kombos (35,4%)
      KK+,AK = 28kombos (29,1%)
      KK+= 12 kombos (12,5%)

      UTG's range his more or less predefined by oR UTG=19% (254hands)
      QQ+,AK=13,4%
      KK+,AK=11%
      KK+=4,7%

      The scenario I built is just really bad for UTG to bluff4bet.
      assuming openraisesizing of 3bb, squeezesize 12bb and 4bet 26bb UTG need 54,7% FE to make this play profitable.
      Even if SB range is pretty bluffheavy (let's say 2/3 bluffs, 1/3 squeeze/call) UTG just has 47% FE, if MP ships KK+,AK.

      Trying to make MP fold AK after opening 19% is too ambitious I think.
      => not good bluffspot for UTG


      looking at SB:
      regarding the fact that SB can expect a lot of UTG call/MP call-scenarios his range shouldn't be polarized. Expecting UTG/MP to call hands like AQs/JJ/TT (MP will overcall any pocket after UTG called) should make it easy to valuesqueeze QQ+,AK. Whether it's a 3bet/push or 3bet/fold depends a lot on villains in UTG/MP. If UTG is capable of bluffing in this spot and value4betting all AK's it's an easy 3bet/ship with QQ+,AK for SB. If UTG is more like only 4betting KK+ I can imagine some spots snapfolding QQ (and still think valuesqueeze was good).

      This is too readbased I think for finding a clear answer for sqz/Jam of SB.

      UTG can 4bet/call KK+,AK here. Don't think that 4bet/calling QQ by default is good in this spot



      If I got you wrong or if you want to change some of my parameters dramatically let me know:)
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,994
      nice thoughts and calcs - thx for effort


      Originally posted by alderfalder

      So what can SB sqz/Jam vs UTG here?
      - what can he sqz/Jam vs. MP, when UTG folds and MP 4bets?
      - what can UTG 4b/Call here for value vs. SB?
      - do you think it is a spot where UTG can/should bluff4b a lot?


      I start with MP to figure this out. I just made some assumptions to having the chance of getting a "solution" for this scenario.
      I assume MP is one of these guys not 3betting anything against UTG (you can take some other coldcalling range with discounted AA/KK as well, but I like the easy way...), so I gave him the range

      MP:
      77+JTs+,AQo+,AJs+ (96kombos)
      just to keep in mynd:
      QQ+,AK= 34kombos (35,4%)
      KK+,AK = 28kombos (29,1%)
      KK+= 12 kombos (12,5%)

      UTG's range his more or less predefined by oR UTG=19% (254hands)
      QQ+,AK=13,4%
      KK+,AK=11%
      KK+=4,7%

      The scenario I built is just really bad for UTG to bluff4bet.
      assuming openraisesizing of 3bb, squeezesize 12bb and 4bet 26bb UTG need 54,7% FE to make this play profitable.
      Even if SB range is pretty bluffheavy (let's say 2/3 bluffs, 1/3 squeeze/call) UTG just has 47% FE, if MP ships KK+,AK.

      Trying to make MP fold AK after opening 19% is too ambitious I think.
      => not good bluffspot for UTG


      looking at SB:
      regarding the fact that SB can expect a lot of UTG call/MP call-scenarios his range shouldn't be polarized. Expecting UTG/MP to call hands like AQs/JJ/TT (MP will overcall any pocket after UTG called) should make it easy to valuesqueeze QQ+,AK. Whether it's a 3bet/push or 3bet/fold depends a lot on villains in UTG/MP. If UTG is capable of bluffing in this spot and value4betting all AK's it's an easy 3bet/ship with QQ+,AK for SB. If UTG is more like only 4betting KK+ I can imagine some spots snapfolding QQ (and still think valuesqueeze was good).

      This is too readbased I think for finding a clear answer for sqz/Jam of SB.
      it is, but oftentimes you have no more infos I have given (the stats) and then youre forced to make a guess which is on average (regards to palyerpool you play) best...

      UTG can 4bet/call KK+,AK here. Don't think that 4bet/calling QQ by default is good in this spot



      If I got you wrong or if you want to change some of my parameters dramatically let me know:)