Mid pocket pair vs MSS

  • 6 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,736
      Yeah, this slams into me all day playing NL 5 speed tables on iPoker.

      You raise 66 2.5x from CO and get 3Bet 8 BB by a player in SB w/ a 50 BB stack.

      Giving villain the widest imaginable range you have:

             Equity     Win     Tie
      CO    49.19% 48.63% 0.56% { 66 }
      SB    50.81%  50.25%   0.56% { 44+, A5s+, A5o+ }


      You have to fold 'em.

      It sucks, but there's no other way.

      To make yourself feel better, mark him.
      Sooner or later you'll have a had to 4Bet with and get it all back.
      In the meantime, he thinks he can get you to fold so easily.

      This is for an unknown.

      You might be able to use his stats against him -- assuming you have any.

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      If your folding PP's vs an 8bb 3bet from a midstack there's no wonder your still playing Nl5.
    • Evante
      Evante
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2009 Posts: 833
      oh erm i was talking about cold calling not calling a 3bet.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      You can add 99 to your 3bet call range, as for the rest you really can't 3bet fold, you can either call or fold.

      Generally shorties suck at postflop play so your not only setmining but also trying to outplay them postflop, especially IP.

      OOP you can still call since they open for like 2.08x and you already have 1bb invested so your implied are way better. If your on the BB you can just open jam on them as well if they open the BU over 50% since they will be folding a lot and you still have good equity when called. This goes for 40bbers as you can no longer shove 50bb over a 2x open.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,736
      Originally posted by MatejM47
      If your folding PP's vs an 8bb 3bet from a midstack there's no wonder your still playing Nl5.
      Fair enough.

      but then...

      You can add 99 to your 3bet call range, as for the rest you really can't 3bet fold, you can either call or fold.

      Generally shorties suck at postflop play so your not only setmining but also trying to outplay them postflop, especially IP.

      OOP you can still call since they open for like 2.08x and you already have 1bb invested so your implied are way better. If your on the BB you can just open jam on them as well if they open the BU over 50% since they will be folding a lot and you still have good equity when called. This goes for 40bbers as you can no longer shove 50bb over a 2x open.
      I've been thinking over this for quite a while.
      Are you assuming that any of these 50 BB players will fold to a 4Bet?
      I'll play TT+ all night lone vs them, but 66 seems way too weak.

      How do YOU play 22-88 vs a 50 BB stack in the blinds who 3Bets your CO or BTN open-raise?

      Thanks,
      --VS
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Obviously they are folding to 4bets. They have like 15-35% 3bet ranges vs BU and CO. Its important to know their ranges in this spot, but i have yet to see a ''professional'' shortie that 3bets less then 15% vs BU. Thats pretty much their game plan to abuse wide BU openes by 3betting since its hard for you to call profitably.

      You can easily 4bat jam any PP if they are 3betting around 12% and any AXs if they are over 20% range. This is assuming that you open the BU to 2x and they make it 6.5x 40bb effective on normal tables and thats only a rough gameplan.

      I haven't ran the math for zoom 50bb effective stacks, but its pretty much the same s*** since they should be making 3bets a bit bigger leaving more dead money when they fold. In your own example, your risking 47.5bb(50bb-2.5bb already invested) to win 11.5bb(8bb of his money, 2.5bb of your money and 0.5-1bb of either SB or BB) and still having 40% equity when called.


      Now you have to be careful to have decent sample size and always look at 3bet vs position. One same shortie could have a 3% 3bet vs EP and a 30% 3bet vs BU. So positional stats are the key when playing those rathollers since short stacked play is more of a math based game.