I heard a interesting theory about position

    • davidgod
      davidgod
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2008 Posts: 1,675
      I watch a video similar to ted video. The lecturer said an economic noble prize winner mathematically prove that on any games that with limited solution to choose, the player who first act mush have a strategy to win the game.

      it is mathematically prove, so it is not a conjecture.

      So the chess , igo , gomoko etc the first actor must have a way to win the game. As gomoko the computer software have done it.

      But when we refer to poker, in this rule, it should be like the best position is utg (the first actor) , or postflop the out of position guy should have the advantage, but the true is not, why?

      as sng or mtt short stack stage , i consider sb is the best position, but definitely not utg.

      what is your idea?
  • 4 replies
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Imo those are games with perfect information. Poker is not, therefore being last to act gives you a huge advantage.

      Regards,

      Skod
    • alphabeat
      alphabeat
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2010 Posts: 728
      I think your comparison is incorrect. As Skodlijivec mentions, those games are complete information games.

      Poker should be compared against other situations of incomplete information, such as Bargaining for a sale or an auction. It is clear there, how being last to bid is the best position.
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 2,045
      It's pretty much established that being the last player to act is the most advantageous position to be in for any poker player. As the other posters pointed out, poker is all about information. You can't compare it to games like go or chess in this case.

      Originally posted by davidgod
      as sng or mtt short stack stage , i consider sb is the best position, but definitely not utg.
      This might actually be a possible exception, because you play push/fold at this stage, and therefore postflop play doesn't exist. Being in the SB can give you lots of opportunities to put pressure on the BB.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,744
      Originally posted by Harrier88
      It's pretty much established that being the last player to act is the most advantageous position to be in for any poker player. As the other posters pointed out, poker is all about information. You can't compare it to games like go or chess in this case.

      Originally posted by davidgod
      as sng or mtt short stack stage , i consider sb is the best position, but definitely not utg.
      This might actually be a possible exception, because you play push/fold at this stage, and therefore postflop play doesn't exist. Being in the SB can give you lots of opportunities to put pressure on the BB.
      In a book on tournament play -- I think "Harrington on Holdem" but I could be wrong -- the author described this as "the right of first bluff".

      There were "zones" so between certain stack sizes you would 3Bet shove, lower than that you would open shove a certain range, and at some point you had to open shove any two.

      So maybe in that limited context, early is better -- you can open shove wider than you can call.

      But other than that, as Skodljivec says, later position mean more information.

      The article is right about another thing, too -- If you open from EP you need a strategy for success.

      Cheers,
      --VS