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Would you fold the 2nd Nuts in a High Roller Event?

    • CollinMoshman
      CollinMoshman
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 20.09.2011 Posts: 528
      In today’s SNG coaching we started talking about this hand from the PCA highroller event:



      Here’s the Pokerstars interview with both players giving their thought process on it:



      Here is an interesting analysis from the players themselves: http://bcove.me/lm7pq53b

      I’d be very interested to get your comments on this hand in the thread, and we’ll start off the next SNG coaching (January 21) by discussing it + I'll give my opinion.
  • 13 replies
    • vaulsc
      vaulsc
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2012 Posts: 124
      Thanks for bringing this one up here Colin. I think it was an interesting hand and hearing Kurganov's explanation of it gave me a lot more respect for his game (I already had a lot). It does indeed seem like a hard spot to pull off a bluff, and by the sound of it, Kurganov gave a lot of weight to the physical tell side of it also.
    • vaulsc
      vaulsc
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2012 Posts: 124
      Just noticed this live footage of the hand for anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQQ3aBlXXQ

      Sound quality not great on that one, there's probably a better version of that specific clip around.
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,514
      At first i was like: "lol, 2nd nuts in Blind vs Blind situation... i never fold".
      And then I see my average stake and theirs - probably I shouldn't lol too much :-)
    • CollinMoshman
      CollinMoshman
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 20.09.2011 Posts: 528
      Thanks for the Youtube link Vaulsc, very interesting to watch the footage.

      Sven I had the exact same thought ... so I will just have to increase my ABI by a factor of 1000 before this Wednesday's coaching :)
    • iSoOwnYou
      iSoOwnYou
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2014 Posts: 642
      Easy fold. He's either catching a bluffer or he's lost. Read dependent to an extent. Unless the guys a maniac, snap fold river.

      I would have gone for raise / fold line on river all day long.
    • SWScuracao
      SWScuracao
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2010 Posts: 295
      Can't mizzy also have trips in his range? (+2 combo's for his bluffing range?)
      It's a bit crazy, and he probably wouldn't have shoved on the riverraise 'cause of the flush, but maybe

      just maybe.... any :Qh: :Qx: combo kinda works as a blocker for the heart flush right?
    • sherriffatman
      sherriffatman
      Silver
      Joined: 30.04.2009 Posts: 275
      very interesting hd to analyse (n1Collin!)

      this is way above my level of poker knowledge tbh, and I very much doubt I will ever be able to play a HR, but fwiw I think Mizzi's raise on rvr polarises his range somewhat (ie. contrary to the commentator, I think he could just about call profitably with QQ/55), and I totally disagree that it's an 'easy fold' for Igor - the yt title sorta contradicts that view - also interesting that they had opposing views on whether the rvr was a good spot to bluff

      - kinda amusing that Sarah is nodding along, but clearly a bit bemused (as would I be, btw) as Igor explains his high-level thought-processes and combinatrics deduction

      these plays are what separates the great from the good imho so wpwp to Kurganov for backing his judgement in a pressure-spot, and wpwp to Mizzi if indeed he was running a bluff.
    • HNRoger
      HNRoger
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.06.2007 Posts: 116
      I have no idea, i am not even near the level of these guys, but for post action judgement: Mizzi didnt look like the guy who got denied value in a nuts vs second nuts situation, check his mimics as he stacks his chips, or maybe thats acting? Heck knows, the only way a fish like me finds it out, is if i build a time machine and go back there and flip his cards.
    • iSoOwnYou
      iSoOwnYou
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2014 Posts: 642
      Its not about being near their level

      They just have money
      Fish exist at every level mate
    • sherriffatman
      sherriffatman
      Silver
      Joined: 30.04.2009 Posts: 275
      Originally posted by iSoOwnYou
      Its not about being near their level

      They just have money
      Fish exist at every level mate

      I agree with the last statement, but I wouldn't classify Kurganov or Mizzi as rich fish/whales by any stretch of the imagination
    • iSoOwnYou
      iSoOwnYou
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2014 Posts: 642
      Hi yeah I was speaking generally about this buyin didn't mean to reference particular players here!
    • Riverdiver
      Riverdiver
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2012 Posts: 1,126
      Pretty simple, Mizzi never has Qhigh flush, cause he'll usually cb tp otf. Don't think he's ever 3b jamming the Thigh flush vs such a huge x/r when Kurganov can have all higher flushes. So Mizzi either has the nuts or the nutblocker. Hard to find bare :Ah: that he x/b on the flop and then goes bet turn and b/s river.
    • CollinMoshman
      CollinMoshman
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 20.09.2011 Posts: 528
      Thanks for all the comments, I'll definitely be referring to them in the coaching today :)