small pairs in late stages

    • dubadal
      dubadal
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2008 Posts: 263
      hi,

      i started playing more 3-6$ MTTs lately, especially 90-180 player sngs. Im technically on a short BR (20-40 BI), so getting ITM is cruicial. Im not scared money though.

      Anyhow, I got a feeling that I'm misplaying a lot of times my small pairs (22-88) in later stages of tournaments, when most stacks are around 20BB-. Due to low BI level players still continue to donk a lot. It doesn't really help, as with a small pair Im a flip at best against 40% range.

      What is advisable to do with small pairs in early-mid positions preflop with no action behind or min raises, when Im on short-average stack?

      Currently Im mixing limp-folding and raise-folding mostly. No problems with CF or CR on flop, if I hit-miss.

      Any post references are welcome. But Im really looking for oppinions.

      P.S. Braggingrights: donked my way to 5th place in 2$ mtt with 5k people yesterday, which kinda made me seriously consider some of my moves with small pairs
  • 6 replies
    • Tiltberger
      Tiltberger
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2005 Posts: 28,156
      hey dubadal

      don't play 90-180 sngs with just 40 buyins. There is a big chance that you'll lose your whole bankroll. Switch to normal sngs with 50+ und build your bankroll or move down the limits to have 100 buyin or more for 90 player sngs fx.

      short: 15-20 bb openpushing > openraising. Openpushing low-mid pps is the best solution. Its not readable and Villains do not call with 22+66. So when you push 22 with 15 bbs from utg you get 22, 33, 44, 55, 66 and sometimes 77 or 88 to fold behind you. When you get called there is a good chance that you'll flip.

      don't openraise small pps till 88+ with 20-25bb from early positions. Its -ev because villains in these limits tend to call openraises ip a LOT and with overcards on the board a contination bet won't work often enough and you'll constantly lose chips in these spots.
    • dubadal
      dubadal
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2008 Posts: 263
      thanks for the reply!
      I'll try to openpush some and see how that works out - dont think that I've actually done that at all..

      regarding br... well, you know :f_biggrin:
    • getnavi
      getnavi
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2010 Posts: 5
      everytime when i openpush my low pocket, i got called by QQ+.
      and finish my tournament.

      i was 15th place, 60 left, 2500 enterance, 30BB.
      I openpushed 77 at CO. OMG BU called with QQ. shit!.

      I was 20th place, 45left, 770 ent. 15BB
      I openpushed 66 at CO. OMG BU called with KK. shit!.

      I was 55th place, 90left, 2500 ent, 15BB
      I openpushed AQ at MP3, OMG BU called with KK. shit..


      all happened last week.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      You really shouldn't open push small pocket pairs from UTG when you're playing FR. Even if you have 88 UTG there's still like a 50% chance someone behind will make up with a better hand I'm not mistaken. And I do not agree with seeberger on the calling range... people DO call with hands like 44 etc because hey "I've got a pair, I'm flipping".

      I do think you should push 88+ from any position once your stack is down to like 16-15bb, especially when there's ante's involved. But with an 18bb stack you should just open fold hands like 55 from early en probably even middle position because it's kind of impossible to play them.
    • Tiltberger
      Tiltberger
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2005 Posts: 28,156
      Originally posted by Mstlc
      You really shouldn't open push small pocket pairs from UTG when you're playing FR. Even if you have 88 UTG there's still like a 50% chance someone behind will make up with a better hand I'm not mistaken. And I do not agree with seeberger on the calling range... people DO call with hands like 44 etc because hey "I've got a pair, I'm flipping".

      I do think you should push 88+ from any position once your stack is down to like 16-15bb, especially when there's ante's involved. But with an 18bb stack you should just open fold hands like 55 from early en probably even middle position because it's kind of impossible to play them.
      i didn't say to push 22 with 20bbs from utg. Thats probably to lose. I don't get a lot of calls from 33s, 44s, 55s and 66. Thats just my perception after 2 years of mtt-only...
      I agree with folding hands like 55 with around 20-25bb from utg. They are really tough to play and in most cases its -ev to openraise them.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      Originally posted by getnavi
      everytime when i openpush my low pocket, i got called by QQ+.
      and finish my tournament.
      You may be getting the wrong feedback from this. If your opponents are not calling you with hands like 88, AJo, etc. when they should, then they are making many more pushes profitable. Each player after you will only have AK or JJ+ about 3% of the time, and you can win even when you run into a premium hand, so if you are only getting called by premium hands it means your steals will be very profitable even with worse hands than low pocket pairs.

      I get called by AK significantly more than I get called by AQ, even when AQ crushes my range. This is a sign some players are making some terrible folds with AQ which make me money as long as I keep pushing a good, wide range.