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The All in but not All in move

    • Schrader69
      Joined: 08.03.2008 Posts: 345
      The idea of shoving all in but a couple chips, on the bubble so that if some crazy things go down u can fold and squeeze into the money. I dont understand this idea and wonder if someone could explain it.
      What situation would this be a good idea, if ever?
      Can the same thing be done on the 3rd place bubble?
  • 4 replies
    • Chenghao
      Joined: 04.10.2009 Posts: 274
      not really a tournament player but probably the idea is that if you have 10 K chips , the 9 k chips isn't as valuable as the last 1 K chips as if you still have 1 K chips , you are still in the tournament.

      shoving in with a few chips behind is silly as u could have bet much lesser to steal i guess.

      it depends on your objective , if your objective is number 1 , u won't wanna do such a strategy

      if your objective is to cash , maybe then you would do such a thing.

      the only time i think ever is when you have a non nut hand on the river facing 2 all ins on the bubble , when either one is eliminated , you will make it into the money. if you call , you might risk bubbling at that point. if your objective is to cash , folding will guarantee you meet your objective.
    • ghaleon
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,964
      One situation is when you are very short stack in bubble situation versus villains who are very close in stack size. After you raise villains might go allin and you can fold. Point is that you are so much behind in stack sizes that even if you would triple up it wouldn't increase winning probability that much. So after fold only chance for bad result is pot split, which would be very nasty :)

      This is obviously for SnGs and not MTTs.
    • pzhon
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The main idea is not to save your chips later. The idea is that your opponents may misread your raise as representing more strength or more of a threat.

      If you push for 3.1 bb, more of your opponents will realize that they don't have to call any more chips later, and they get about 2:1 odds, and so they may have an easy call with 76o, a hand with which he would not defend the blinds against a raise to 3 bb with 15 bb behind. That 76o might be behind your range, but you would still prefer to take the blinds than for your opponent to make the odds-call.

      However, suppose you have 3.1 bb and you raise to 3 bb leaving 0.1 bb behind. If someone is not paying attention, he might fold when he would have called a 0.1 bb push. He might overlook that you don't have more chips behind to follow up on the initial raise.

      Another theory is that with some hands, your opponent chooses randomly from his options. If you push, your opponent either calls or folds. If you raise almost all-in, then your opponent can raise, call, or fold, and 2/3 of these are essentially calls. In this model, you will get called more often if you leave a few chips behind, not less often. I think this applies to some postflop situations, and it means you should really check your database to see whether you get called more or less often if you hold back a few chips.

      There are occasional times when you might fold your last 0.1 bb to avoid the multiway penalty, even getting fantastic pot odds, but it is almost never right to do this against one player preflop or on the flop.
    • arisko
      Joined: 23.09.2009 Posts: 392
      another thing is that, if the opponent doesn't want you to see the flop, he will have to raise you. By having to raise u, he has to double your bet, which will put him all-in most of the time. Therefore you force him to either call you, or go all in himself, as there is no such thing as a 1BB raise on a 7BB bet. This could lead to a big stack calling down his all-in and making it an easy fold for you.

      this is a situation that I might think of, I might be totally wrong, though