Diamond question - optimal activity for best rakeback system

    • Cornie4ever
      Cornie4ever
      Headadmin
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      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 8,223
      Hi all,

      I posted this question to diamond forum, but also want to put it here to get views of good players who are not diamond currently.

      I just wanted to ask your opinions on optimal activity on different sites with a view to optimize the rakeback system.

      Actually, when browsing 2+2 forums etc. I found out that on FullTilt poker (which is my home site currently), you can get around 80% rakeback if you have optimal level of activity. But that level is much lower than my usuall activity so I was thinking about playing on more sites but with a view to get optimal rakeback system.

      FullTilt assumptions for approx 80% rakeback are

      1) you are black card member (i.e. at least 500 ftp daily average)
      2) you are veteran in iron man challenge (e.g. its your 37+ month of ironman)
      3) you buy expensive tickets from your FTP points and Iron Man Medals (e.g. FTOPS or Sunday brawl. I actually buy the Sunday Brawl).

      ***
      I was thinking to play on all of the smaller sites and always choose the site for my activity in current months depending on the monthly promo - e.g. nice promos on 24h poker and William Hill in November.

      However, it would mean that you have to play RAKE RACES in that smaller sites, so you would effectively have to give up intensive activity on FT poker (and never reach veteran status in Iron man and black card subsequently)..

      ***

      My question is - what is good in your experience?

      1) Do you have just 1 main site? On FT however, it does not make sense to play more than 500 ftp a day because your marginal rakeback decreases rapidly from 500ftp+. So should I move to PokerStars? :-) They don´t have rush however..

      2) Do you have just 1 main site where you have optimal activity (e.g. 500 ftp daily on FT) and some additional site for the rest? Which supplementary site is good and why?

      3) Do you ignore longterm promotions completely and alwayse focus on current month promotions?

      4) you don´t care about rakeback system and just focus on your edge and winnings

      To give my view, I like FTP and play only there currently. And keep complaining on FT support so that they make several levels of black card to differentiate the frequent players like supernova on stars (but dunno if they gonna do it). So I was thinking where to move my activity exceeding 500ftp daily points - I also play on PartyPoker and bet365 but I don´t like these sites as they give more rakeback to very frequent players that I can´t reach with my low activity there (e.g. platinum vip bonus on party) - so it sucks.. Looking for an improvement..

      Many thanks for your view

      Cornie4ever
  • 15 replies
    • HannesZ
      HannesZ
      Headadmin
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      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 16,312
      Hi Cornie4ever,

      The questions is does it really make sense to add a 2nd site?

      On Full Tilt Poker you get always 27% rakeback plus double Full Tilt Points as a Black Card member. So you are already above 30% in total.

      Sure the relative rakeback percentages will go down when you play more, but in total you still will get more rakeback.

      There are also disadvantages if you play on more sites:
      - You won't reach the highest VIP level on the smaller site (lower % rate)
      - You play versus new players, which are unknown (lower winrate)

      Cheers,
      Hannes
    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      Originally posted by Cornie4ever

      1) Do you have just 1 main site? On FT however, it does not make sense to play more than 500 ftp a day because your marginal rakeback decreases rapidly from 500ftp+. So should I move to PokerStars? :-) They don´t have rush however..

      3) Do you ignore longterm promotions completely and alwayse focus on current month promotions?


      Cornie4ever
      supernova equals ~40% RB, SNE ~%70+ bases on the type of games you play

      on FTP you can hardly get more than 30%+


      ignoring long term promotions is reckless. even if you are 10bb winner, RB will add 3bb to your winrate, so do the math


      Originally posted by HannesZ
      Hi Cornie4ever,

      On Full Tilt Poker you get always 27% rakeback plus double Full Tilt Points as a Black Card member. So you are already above 30% in total.

      Cheers,
      Hannes
      this is not entirely correct. more info on the problems around the new system is available here
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      I got around 21% rakeback, and I made a quite long email just now to FT support, when I get answer I'll tell you how is this really working on FT, coz I'm confused and everyone says different story, but the rakeback is not 27% now thats for sure.
    • HannesZ
      HannesZ
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 16,312
      Well rakeback on Full TIlt Poker is based on weighted contributed rake. On this rake you get 27% rakeback + Full Tilt Points.

      Sure calculated on dealt rake the percentage is usually less.

      Cheers,
      Hannes
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      the rake itself in the HEM or at the ironman page is correct, but at the PS homepage where u see ur PS points, now thats less, doesnt matter if i play 1VPIP or 100VPIP it will be still less at the PS page.waiting PS to reply me still..
    • Akwed
      Akwed
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 252
      On FTP every black member will get minimum 33,6% RB from rake what they pay.
      If they play only on bonus hours, they get another 3,3% bonus.
      Plus ironman and othesr promotions, you can get easily 40%RB from money which you payd. So, its equal to supernova.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by OZSA
      the rake itself in the HEM or at the ironman page is correct, but at the PS homepage where u see ur PS points, now thats less, doesnt matter if i play 1VPIP or 100VPIP it will be still less at the PS page.waiting PS to reply me still..
      as far as I know, FTP's are still dealt instead of contributed. you still have 27% rakeback from your WC rake.
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      Originally posted by Akwed
      On FTP every black member will get minimum 33,6% RB from rake what they pay.
      If they play only on bonus hours, they get another 3,3% bonus.
      Plus ironman and othesr promotions, you can get easily 40%RB from money which you payd. So, its equal to supernova.
      how can u prove that 33,6% ? i hardly get it, and 40% RB with ironman, hardly again, u need to be ironman for like 3years in a row to get that, and thats impossible if u have any minimal life.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      27% (RB) +6.6% (blackcard) = 33.6%
    • Akwed
      Akwed
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      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 252
      Originally posted by OZSA
      Originally posted by Akwed
      On FTP every black member will get minimum 33,6% RB from rake what they pay.
      If they play only on bonus hours, they get another 3,3% bonus.
      Plus ironman and othesr promotions, you can get easily 40%RB from money which you payd. So, its equal to supernova.
      how can u prove that 33,6% ? i hardly get it, and 40% RB with ironman, hardly again, u need to be ironman for like 3years in a row to get that, and thats impossible if u have any minimal life.
      Check my calc.
      You got 3.3% RB after MGR reduction.
      27% basic RB + 3,3% basic FTP + 3,3% Black card + 3,3% happy hours
      P.S. u can get iron man easily with normal life:) . You just need right buyin:)
    • OZSA
      OZSA
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      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      i know you can become iron man but 25 days are 25days..its just alot, i was iron man like 4-5times, gold 3times and twice silver once bronze, all of them at nl10, maybe on nl50 its really fast and easy.
      what im saying that the base rakeback is not 27%, right now its 20% for me and getting black card at FT isnt really easy, so I dont even count that, as for the iron man, its too many continous months u need to have a normal medal/month otherwise u get 100$ bonus after 6months which is quite frankly a piece of ...the problem is that without black card u have no use of the FTP at all, and whatever u do with it, it will reduce ur RB...and 50$ for 15k FTP, i mean, thats 1.5k $ rake...they are pretty much gypsis even with the black card... sry for offtopic but what RB u can achieve at stars if ur not supernova, but platinum ? anyone know that ?

      and more thing, if u buy any bonus with iron man medals or with FTP, ur base rakeback will be reduced aswell. and if they reduce from that 20%, not much u'll gain by an iron man bonus for example..
    • lennonac
      lennonac
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      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      http://www.fpppro.com/pokerstars-rakeback.php
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      you don't need to be iron to have consecutive months.

      your weighted contributed rakeback is never below 27%
    • OZSA
      OZSA
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      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      i dont get what u mean by weighted contributed.. do u get more rb if u play more hands? how much vpip u need for 27% rb then? and noncash game players get 27% rb all the time ?
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      the more rake you pay, the more rake you will get back (but it's 27%) your rb% will never go up.

      the rake stat in HEM is dealt rake , and getting 21% of that is standard if you are not a LAG.

      and yes, tournament players get now more FTPs and blackcard benefits without losing anything we had before.