SSS: First Impressions and Personal Impatience

    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Hi. First time poster but firstly I have to say I am very impressed with the site as a whole and the articles are worthy of a read for any new player. I'm very eager to reach silver/gold status to read more.
      I have been playing poker for about a year now, mostly low stakes cash/single table tournaments, both online and home games and as you would expect have developed a game i try to stick to and play with, differing greatly from the SSS.

      My first impressions are one of understanding but slight frustration. I understand why the strategy needs to be so tight but I can't help feel it's a little too tight.
      Unless you are completly new to the game of poker I can't see why it would be favourable to use the SSS. I would welcome some counter arguments to that statement however.

      Because the strategy is so tight I find myself sitting there folding hand after hand, posting blind after blind, rebuying until finally being able to play a hand as per the SSS allows and even then I'm not guranteed to take the pot, especially if we're talking about AK and its counterparts. Alright, when you hit you are probably going to double up, but after 40-60 hands of folding I'd expect that.

      I think my frustration is coming from being used to being able to play hands like A 10 freely, and playing any pocket pair hard pre flop. And then folding hands such as A 10, in late position, due to the SSS and then seeing an A come on the flop, really stings for me :P
      This and the fact that folding hand after hand is actually boring. I play poker to play hands, not to fold them. But this is a moot point really.
      I also find frustration in the fact that when you do hit that nut flush draw, you have a grand total of 2 dollars to go all in with. Your never going to get paid off, but I know the whole strategy is a slow but steady one.

      I don't have any doubts that it works, although you really are dependant on getting premium hands. Technically you could rebuy 10 times and not play a single hand.

      Anyway, any feedback? Are the hands set in stone or is there any room for a bit of a looser play? Maybe with a bit of a higher buyin initially? I almost feel compelled to stick to the SSS with a free bankroll but I have to say I'm not finding it easy.

      Thanks and all replies are welcomed!
  • 16 replies
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      If you are going to play SSS, then sticking pretty much to the suggested standards is mandatory. It is designed to give beginners a trouble free entry into winning poker, because pretty much all decisions are pre-made.

      If you find it boring, why not try more than one table? With a bit of practice, it becomes very easy to play six, or more, even up to 12 tables at one time. Believe me, this takes care of the boredom! However, I'm not suggesting you jump right into that. Or anyone who is new to the game, this thinking game anyhow.

      If you have experience, you may be able to make some adjustments, particularly in the area of blinds, but with a small stack, you really don't have a lot of room to move, and AT is not playable. Even with BSS, AT is not an easy hand to play.

      Playing a whole bunch of tables has two other effects. It increases your return, because you have a greater capital in play, but the variance means that when you have a bad day, it really kicks.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi ManniXXX!

      Welcome at PokerStrategy! I hope you enjoy it here! Concerning your frustration: I totally agree with aciddrop. Try to play more tables simultaneously to fight the boredom. Try to build your bankroll and to collect StrategyPoints. As soon as you have reached silver status you have access to the big stack strategy articles. That's the point where you could change from the SSS to the BSS.

      If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask them.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Thanks for the quick replies guys, I tried multi tabling and it definately makes things a bit more interesting, especially when you have 2 playable hands on the go at the same time :) More of a concentration task than anything but concentration is definately a good skill to refine.

      Interestingly enough I was talking about nut hands and not being able to really get paid off with them in my first post, and then this happens in the session I just had:


      (Hope I'm not breaking any rules with posting images)

      But yeah, I just wish I could of had a decent stack to go with it :P Everything in my mind was telling me to check check check but I actually bet this on the flop and was lucky enough for my opponent to have pocket fours :P

      So that pot brought me back up to even and I decided to end my session there.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Well done!

      But why did you want to check it? By checking you don't get any money into the pot :D Don't try to trap your opponents. Play your made hands straight forward. On the lower limits you will get paid off anway!

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      Well done!

      But why did you want to check it? By checking you don't get any money into the pot :D Don't try to trap your opponents. Play your made hands straight forward. On the lower limits you will get paid off anway!

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
      Yeah, your of course completly right. I'm just so much more used to a tournament kind of environment where you want your opponent to make a hand of some sort when you know you can't be beat. So you check down the flop and maybe even the turn in the hopes those cards will help him :P

      But yep, SSS doesn't allow for this and I'll be sure to stick to it for now. Hittin the tables soon! I might post some any questionable hands I play in the sample hands board too as you guys seem to recommend it :)
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Im playing 6 tables SSS at NL50, on Full Tilt, more tables helps a lot, but i had to steal some blinds , my stat around 18-19% on it, because FT has 9 player tables, with usually 1 sit out player, so its most of the time 8 effective players, that hurts SSS, blind you down. But i think on PP, you can very much stick to the chart with 10 players. About variance, yes that hurts when you lose 17 times from 20, and your odds were at least 70% all times. In a 3-400 hand session i experienced 1 buyin gone for the blinds, and usually you are under your buyin when you can double up, so, it takes like two double ups to get + $ after a session. So getting out of a 20 buyin hole takes a lot of time/hands.
      Its a slow strategy, you need a lot of hands to build a bankroll.
      In my eyes, you can decide, you pay the price in $, or you pay in time to get a higher limit bankroll, and to get the experience.
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Originally posted by Utahmar
      Im playing 6 tables SSS at NL50, on Full Tilt, more tables helps a lot, but i had to steal some blinds , my stat around 18-19% on it, because FT has 9 player tables, with usually 1 sit out player, so its most of the time 8 effective players, that hurts SSS, blind you down. But i think on PP, you can very much stick to the chart with 10 players. About variance, yes that hurts when you lose 17 times from 20, and your odds were at least 70% all times. In a 3-400 hand session i experienced 1 buyin gone for the blinds, and usually you are under your buyin when you can double up, so, it takes like two double ups to get + $ after a session. So getting out of a 20 buyin hole takes a lot of time/hands.
      Its a slow strategy, you need a lot of hands to build a bankroll.
      In my eyes, you can decide, you pay the price in $, or you pay in time to get a higher limit bankroll, and to get the experience.
      Interesting post, thanks for sharing. I was also concerned about the 9 player limits on full tilt but theres not a lot I can do about it. (I had to use FT because I already have already recieved bankrolls elsewhere and FT was the only remianing option). You recommend blind stealing to counter the reduced amount of hands I can play? I think I would feel relatively confident about stealing against other short stacks but against a bigger stack I might run into trouble so maybe I'll start there and see how it goes, if it goes wrong I'll know before the bankroll goes dry at least.

      I think it's worth a shot anyway. FT seems less saturated with small stacks than other sites, even at the lower blind levels which may be a positive thing for when I can move up to the BSS.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Im just raising 3.5x blind from late position both on a hand, and both when steal attempt, so this saves a little on the long run, not the 4x blind, as in the standard strategy.
      And the player's style is much more agressive, than i experienced elsewhere, they reraise to cbet very often, try steal more often.
      I think on this site blind battles are much more important than like on PartyPoker.
      On FT shortstack not necessarily means shorstack strategy player. And i see quite many big stack playing very tight also.
      I dont know the limit you are playing, im only talking about NL50, or maybe NL25.

      You can play shortstack even at the highest level, i know players playing at NL5000 even.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      All in all , im down 5 buyins on like 8600 hands yet. It feels like a minefield out here compared to PP.....
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Wow. I definately agree with the aggression comment. I've had numerous times where I would get reraised well over the pot on 2nd pair and I'd make a risky call with top pair and get paid. Risky with the SSS but it only makes me even more eager to move up to the BSS if the players are being this aggressive generally, there will always be the exceptions.

      8000 hands and no profit sounds ugly :( Although you haven't lost much either.

      I think I'll use the SSS until I release the other $50 from the bonus account, even if I only break even on the tables I'll still be $50 up and maybe even silver status by then :)
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      If you like contact me on skype / icq / msn, and we dont mess up the forum.
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Down about 8 buy ins so far. Can't believe the luck I keep getting consistently. When I have aces or kings it usually gets folded round to me. And when I do get called I'm losing the all in pots to straights, flushes and 2 pairs.

      KK vs 99 and the board comes 5678
      AK vs A5 and A5 come on the flop.
      Meh

      I can honestly say I've lost more than I've won which is a bit discouraging...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      20-30 buyin downswings are not uncommon as i heard. I had a downswing for 20 buyins lately in 1000 hands. Im still straggling at -5 up/downs in the past 4k hands ....
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Well the problem with that is that I only have 25 buy ins in total, so techincally I could lose it all through no fault of my own or the strategy?

      I'm pretty much not having to check the charts now as I play which is good cos I can play faster, only when I get reraised I sometimes have to check the stack:raise ratio.

      I guess we are talking about coinflips most of the time, but if people keep hitting 3 outers on me when I have them dominated I might just give in before the bankroll completly goes.

      I'd prefer to buy into 50 $1 sit and gos where I know I have a good chance at the money if I get the cards to do it...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Im not saying im playing perfect game. Maybe my winnings can not overcome my bad plays.
      I had a nice session yesterday, so im down to 14 now P. Yes its very possible, when you have AK against QQ, you lose, you have QQ against AK, and lose again, JJ on 66, JJ on 88, they making sets, straights, and sometime of course u run your AQ into KK, split AA with AA, JJ with JJ, and so on. I checked my history, i made 1 buyin mistake, otherwise i was 50-50 or favorite.
      What i see as flow, that when you double up usually you are under your initial buyin, when you lose you lose a full buyin. So you need more than 1 double up to compensate a loss. Plus you have to get over the blinds also.
      I will hold on till like 60k - 100k hand, or until the money go away, making down to NL 25 at 200$, and see what happens in the long run.