[NL20-NL50] SH50 KXXX ch/c ch ch from villain

    • THESHade
      THESHade
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2010 Posts: 5,418
      Party Poker $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1022790
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $57.56
      SB: $46.77
      BB: $83.20
      UTG: $50.00
      MP: $52.25
      Hero (CO): $60.00

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with J :spade: 7 :club:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, BB calls $1

      Flop: ($3.25) K :club: 6 :diamond: 3 :diamond: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $2.00, BB calls $2

      Turn: ($7.25) 8 :heart: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      River: ($7.25) 9 :spade: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $4.50, BB folds



      Is this fine against a fish (my assumption, fish cant hadn-read)
      I will fold-out better hands for sure so should be fine but I dont liek T and R cause it improves his range (so 2ndbarrelign is notan option) but when he ch again his best hand is one-pair type hand so ... who cares if it imrpoves his range when it does nto imrpove his hand now right?
  • 12 replies
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      3 checks in a row = weak hand. After you check/bh turn he has to value bet river with anything halfway decent so I think your line is fine.

      I might make it $5.50 or $6.00, though, just to make sure he folds his one pair hands.

      I only do this vs a fish, as you said, cos you cant rep much.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Your line is fine but personally I believe preflop is a bit loose (unless BTN and SB are tight players).

      Your bluff on the river only has to work ~38% of the time on the river to break even.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello THESHade,

      Preflop: As you mentioned that the opponent is a fish then I would likely not steal with such hand as earlier mentioned. It will be hard to overplay the fish postflop with such a hand and do it profitable in long run. Just avoid the variance.

      River: I would also say that it's a perfect spot to Bet here, he can fold here a lot of draws and maybe even a weaker PP, depending on his WTS. If he has a higher WTS like 30+ then I would often consider even just Checking back. Also depends on hand sample size.

      Best regards.
    • THESHade
      THESHade
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2010 Posts: 5,418
      Welcome new Judge and Coach
      PFA far as I remember BU was nit so I was pretty much on a BU...
      Therefore, I think my oR is fine casue I want to play pots w fish IP
      SB was TAGish player w only 6 percent 3bet so it should be fine, I have position and thats all that matters, + when I hit TP I would prob get 1-2streets of value
      but I guess u are right that I should not oR this if SB is competent cause he would either call and we are 3way which totally sucks w my hand or he 3bets me and I cant do much about it
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      pf open is quite standard with position
      Mostly they would lead rivers with top pair hands, so yeah, taking small stab there is fine and he may easily fold 6x and better high card hands
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Im not sure about pre. Even if BU is tight (so you have eff BU), if fish is in blinds he calls hands like J8 and J9 all day long and fish never fold so you wont get him to fold the better hand ever.

      The problem is that even with a small pair, a fish will call down, so you can't barrel on overcards so easily.

      I may be too nitty though - not really sure - I generally fold marginal hands with poor playability if I think fish is likely to call pretty often.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Im not sure about pre. Even if BU is tight (so you have eff BU), if fish is in blinds he calls hands like J8 and J9 all day long and fish never fold so you wont get him to fold the better hand ever.

      The problem is that even with a small pair, a fish will call down, so you can't barrel on overcards so easily.

      I may be too nitty though - not really sure - I generally fold marginal hands with poor playability if I think fish is likely to call pretty often.
      that isn´t really our bigge3st problem that fish would call too often oop, since we´re ip which would allow us to take very often pot control lines or firing once and then giving up. If you play more hands you can realize more how light he would call us down and when to valuebet, when c-bet or at some cases just give up and check it down
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Ok, thanks.

      What range would you give for opening in this spot? Are you opening 35o here, and can you give some explanation for how you decide on a range?

      Reason I was querying is that J7o is less than 50% eq against 100% calling range so our positional/skill advantage has to count for a lot. Obv we have some high cd value for Jx - is that the main factor?
    • THESHade
      THESHade
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2010 Posts: 5,418
      agaisnt fish: High card hands that can flop TopPairs
      agaisnt reg, suited and conencted hands that can flop equity
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      agaisnt fish: High card hands that can flop TopPairs agaisnt reg, suited and conencted hands that can flop equity


      Interesting summary! Can you just explain (or judge) why we differentiate?

      thanks
    • THESHade
      THESHade
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2010 Posts: 5,418
      Fish(usualy, nto always, some fish are like regs w jsut a huge PF range)
      - Fish will pay u off w midpairs, buttonpairs, gutshots, Higcards etc. at elast one street but usually even 2
      -fish isnt usually aggresive so u can comfortably fold ur TP when it raises

      -against reg u use fodl equity and ur own equity, therefore u need suited and connected hands to be able to barrel more cards that improves ur equity , its not helpful against a fish though therefore we prefer high card hands against fish and Equity hands against regs


      However, I love to raise even SCs against fish (but jsut higher ones) but the max is smth like 78s or smth, however 8Ts is a no-brainer open for me , or Q8s
      Q8s has a great High card potential + it is suited :) I would open even Q8o from CO if the conditions are right
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Ok, thanks.

      What range would you give for opening in this spot? Are you opening 35o here, and can you give some explanation for how you decide on a range?

      Reason I was querying is that J7o is less than 50% eq against 100% calling range so our positional/skill advantage has to count for a lot. Obv we have some high cd value for Jx - is that the main factor?
      basically I´ve open every hand that I consider to be playable. 35o is likely borderline and if players call a lot then I tend to fold it, but 35s sure. I can barrel then quite a lot of turns with additional flushdraw equity. So I think maybe 50-70% depends on the game flow and how many times I´ve got 3-bet and if I can win pots without showdowns or not. If players really isn´t folding then opening with K5 or J6 isn´t really profitable any more.