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[NL20-NL50] nl50 Rush - QKs / fd+g/shot on turn

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      SB ($47.30)
      BB ($51.50)
      UTG ($249)
      UTG+1 ($18.25)
      CO ($57.55)
      Hero ($92.55)

      Dealt to Hero K:diamond: Q:diamond:

      fold, fold, CO raises to $1.30, Hero calls $1.30, fold, fold

      FLOP ($3.35) 2:spade: 9:diamond: J:club:

      CO bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

      TURN ($8.35) 2:spade: 9:diamond: J:club: J:diamond:

      CO bets $5.75, Hero raises to $15, CO raises to $35, Hero folds

      CO wins $36.45

      villain unknown: 25/20/3, wts 25/ 92hs.
      Is turn a decent spot for a raise with our hand in general? I felt like once villain 3b big I have no feQ anymore so Im probably up against {Jx,KK,AA,99/QT} in which case shoving would be a pretty big mistake?

      thanks
  • 4 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I´d generally raise flop with gutshot and two overcards, but if you call then I think you can also call turn. You have a lot of equity against Jx or overpairs but if you raise and get 3-bet then mostly his range is Jx+ and you have to fold hand with a lot of equity.
      Also he is not barreling turn too many times with air, so you can´t be sure you have there huge amount of fold equity and if he b/c, you still would miss quite a lot of rivers and not sure you want to shove then K high
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      I agree with that - if he calls our raise, river is difficult. I thought that villain would barrel this turn pretty often since he knows that without a J or strong hand I have to give up a lot. And that facing a raise he must give up a wide range so I thought our feQ was pretty big?

      If we flat the turn (which I agree should be fine), if river is :diamond: or T, our draw is quite obvious if villain checks and we bet? So sometimes he just check/fold river and we dont get paid enough to justify our call.

      One more thing, you said you would often raise flop with g/sh+overs. Is that because you assume overcds will be good against the range he continues with?
      Reason I ask is, if villain calls our flop raise with hands that are ok on this board (Jx/A9/TT/QQ/KK/AA) we cant necessarily count K or Q as an out to the best hand - or do I have it wrong?

      thanks
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      I agree with that - if he calls our raise, river is difficult. I thought that villain would barrel this turn pretty often since he knows that without a J or strong hand I have to give up a lot. And that facing a raise he must give up a wide range so I thought our feQ was pretty big?

      If we flat the turn (which I agree should be fine), if river is :diamond: or T, our draw is quite obvious if villain checks and we bet? So sometimes he just check/fold river and we dont get paid enough to justify our call.

      One more thing, you said you would often raise flop with g/sh+overs. Is that because you assume overcds will be good against the range he continues with?
      Reason I ask is, if villain calls our flop raise with hands that are ok on this board (Jx/A9/TT/QQ/KK/AA) we cant necessarily count K or Q as an out to the best hand - or do I have it wrong?

      thanks
      if villain barrels there very often then our fold equity is quite big, but also he would take c/f line hands that has no equity, like 54 or can easily just c/c hands that has showdown value, starting 9x and ending pp-s. Players don´t really put you on backdoor diamonds or KQ that would c/f river overpairs or Jx, also we´re quite a lot of draws that he might barrel on the turn. So I think turn call there is quite standard.
      About raising flop: players won´t really bet/3-bet hands like QT/T8 on the flop, so if I raise flop with my hand I force out all air that might barrel quite a lot turn cards, some better made hands would b/f flop, like 55 and even if he b/c it is not the end of the world, since we have quite a lot of equity and can decide if we want to barrel river or take our free cards. So I´m not really planning b/c a lot of Q and K turns, rather take pot control line and then either valuebet river or call his river bet.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Ok, that's helpful - thanks