ratio

    • DominiqueRoyal
      DominiqueRoyal
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 44
      example :You have a flush draw and are getting 3:1 pot odds. With 9 outs you would need 4:1 pot odds to call. In theory you should fold.
      Why that ? if ratio 4:1 is not so good as 3:1. 4:1 = 25 % and 3:1 = 33.3333 %




      explane me plzz someone who knows !!!
  • 15 replies
    • Gugi19
      Gugi19
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 325
      It is simple.

      Lets say you have to pay 10$ and the pot is 30$, 3:1 ratio, and you have 9 outs, ~ 4:1. Now in 5 situations like this, 4 time you will lose those 10$ and once you will win 30$ so you are down 10$ overall.

      When you have to pay 10$ for 40$, you will lose 10$ 4 times and win 40$ once, so break even overall. Tish means that you need 4:1 pot odds or better.

      This simple, but there many factors to consider, implied odds, villains range etc...
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      Implied odds are the major factor to consider here, as if you hit a good flush on a dry board(second nuts is safe enough to play for, possibly third), you can expect to stack your opponent.
    • joecar
      joecar
      Silver
      Joined: 09.04.2008 Posts: 347
      Originally posted by fruktpuff
      Implied odds are the major factor to consider here, as if you hit a good flush on a dry board(second nuts is safe enough to play for, possibly third), you can expect to stack your opponent.
      Implied odds is usually overly applied as most often you will not stack your opponent unless they are a total fish or really aggro.


      Odds to hit on the turn: 4:1
      Odds to hit before showdown: 2:1

      You also have to consider villian also betting further streets after the flop
    • DominiqueRoyal
      DominiqueRoyal
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 44
      I still dont get, its not logical, how 4:1 can be better pot odds than 3:1 if in % there is big difference. And I have better chances to play with for, if I have 1 chance of 3 to win not 1 chance of 4. so I dont get it !!!because the best pot odds is when ratio is 1:1 = ~ 100%
    • Gugi19
      Gugi19
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 325
      Originally posted by DominiqueRoyal
      I still dont get, its not logical, how 4:1 can be better pot odds than 3:1 if in % there is big difference. And I have better chances to play with for, if I have 1 chance of 3 to win not 1 chance of 4. so I dont get it !!!because the best pot odds is when ratio is 1:1 = ~ 100%

      Pot odds don't tell you what are your chances to win. Pot odds tell you what % of the pot you have to pay to see next street. Outs tell you you what are your chances to win. So you have to have better win %, then the % of pot you have to pay to make correct call.
    • DominiqueRoyal
      DominiqueRoyal
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 44
      I learned different that outs show probability of catch my card to improve my hand, and pot odds are showing % of posability to win, I learned this in full tilt poker academy, even my pot odds calculator shows pot odds % of how big are my chances to win in additional situation

      So i'm not sure, you're right. about this
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by DominiqueRoyal
      I still dont get, its not logical, how 4:1 can be better pot odds than 3:1 if in % there is big difference. And I have better chances to play with for, if I have 1 chance of 3 to win not 1 chance of 4. so I dont get it !!!because the best pot odds is when ratio is 1:1 = ~ 100%
      Odds to hit are not the same as pot odds. 1:1 are not the best odds. Lets say you play 0.5/1 NL and there is a open raise to 3BB. Your on BU and have to pay 3$ to win a pot of 4.5$ meaning you get odds of 1.5:1.

      But in case there are 2 more cold callers in that case you still have to call 3$ but in that case the pot is 10.5$ giving you odds of 3.5:1 meaning you get way better odds to call since you have to invest 3$ to win 10.5 where as in first case you have to call 3$ to win 4.5$ so you have to invest the same amount to win less money. Therefor in a multiway preflop pot its more profitable to call suited connectors and small PP in multiway pots since you get better direct odds and more implied odds to get payed off if you hit since the more players means its more likely for someone to pay you off.



      Now lest say you has AKs on a board that gives you a flush draw and your villian has AA. This means only your flush outs are good since K or an A doesn't help you, meaning you will end up with the best hand by the river 37% of the time or 1 in 3 cases.

      So in this case if the pot is 10$ and he bets 5$ you can call of direct odds since you get 3:1 pot odds and 3:1 odds to hit to break even. So if you'd be all in at point it would be an easy call, but since your not you also have to consider calling another bet on the turn. Now on the turn pot is already 20$, you miss and he bets 1/2 pot again, so you again have the same pot odds of 3:1, but you will only end up with the best hand on the river 20% of the time or 1 in 5 cases. So in that case you will lose 10$ each time you lose and win 30$ each time you hit. So you do not get the direct odds to call and will have to consider your implied odds meaning how much more is he willing to call when you do hit.

      In the same example if he would be betting potsize giving you 2:1 odds you will have to invest 10$ on the flop to win 20$. You will have the same odds to win the hand at showdown, but worse price for it since you have to invest 10$ to win 20$ instead of 5$ to win 15$.

      Hope that makes some sense :)
    • DominiqueRoyal
      DominiqueRoyal
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 44
      and how to calculate pot odds if on the flop are no bets ????? how I have to calculate to get right ratio.




      For example : If pot size is 10 $ and big blind is 1 $ and there is no bets on the flop, how do I have to calculate ???
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by DominiqueRoyal
      and how to calculate pot odds if on the flop are no bets ????? how I have to calculate to get right ratio.




      For example : If pot size is 10 $ and big blind is 1 $ and there is no bets on the flop, how do I have to calculate ???
      Well you only get pot odds when you have to call a bet and you calculate them in relation to the pot size. If the pot is 10$ and there is no bet so you have to call 0 to win 10$ you obviously get infinite pot odds. If he bets 1$ you get 10:1, if he bet 2$ you get 5:1 odds, 5$ is 3:1 and 10$ 2:1 and so on. The more he bet the worse odds you get. There can't be any pot odds if there is no bet.

      Pot odds are only the amout of money you have to call to stay in the pot. Its not the same as your outs that you have that makes you the best hand. You have to use your outs to hit in relation to your pot odds to see if you have a profitable call. Basically if you have 3:1 pot odds you have to make the best hand in 1 of 3 cases to make the call profitable.

      Generally you will never get good enough odds in NL to make calls with draws profitable without your implied odds.

      EDIT:
      Maybe you should re-read the article in strategy section on odds and outs.
      Here's the link:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1563/1/
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      With no bets on the flop, the pot odds are infinite I think.

      Not 100% sure though.
    • DominiqueRoyal
      DominiqueRoyal
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 44
      I asked this question because I'm using pot odds calculator, magic holdem. and he is showing me pot odds even when are situation like in this example with no bets on flop. For this reason I wanted to know how the program get the ratio.
      There is have to be some kind a explanation


      And If my pots odds ratio is better than odds I have big chances to call and get my hand ? or vice versa ?
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by DominiqueRoyal
      I asked this question because I'm using pot odds calculator, magic holdem. and he is showing me pot odds even when are situation like in this example with no bets on flop. For this reason I wanted to know how the program get the ratio.
      There is have to be some kind a explanation


      And If my pots odds ratio is better than odds I have big chances to call and get my hand ? or vice versa ?
      Yes. If you get 4:1 pot odds and you have 3:1 to make your hand then you can call profitably. But usually you wont be getting the proper odds to call directly for the pot odds in no limit games since when people bet 2/3 of a pot as standard giving you 2.5:1 odds so you always have to estimate your probable implied odds depending on your villan, strength of his hand and if you have position on him or not.
    • DominiqueRoyal
      DominiqueRoyal
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 44
      quite a little bit of understanding, but not 100 % :D
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well in case you have holdem manager it calculates the odds for your in the upper left of hand replayer. I don't know what program you're using but there can't be pot odds with no bet.
    • DominiqueRoyal
      DominiqueRoyal
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 44
      magic holdem is the program that I use