How do you play AK preflop in RUSH?

    • Pizzacat
      Pizzacat
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2009 Posts: 79
      Today i went through my HEM data and noticed that stacking off preflop w AK is a huge leak.
      So the question is, how do you play it? For instance, I raise on MP and a guy on BB with high 3bet percentage reraises me. Obviously I don't believe and 4bet but he moves in. His Fold to 4bet is around 50%.

      What do fellow rush players think about this? :f_biggrin:
  • 14 replies
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Ai play ze pozishion, ai call
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      very clearly opponent dependent.
    • Pizzacat
      Pizzacat
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2009 Posts: 79
      I already stated the situation above.. regs who 3bet alot. What do you do with them, especially if out of position.

      Also, ppl with like 40-50bb stacks, if I they shove to my reraise, more often they got AA/KK than not.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Ahhhh, yea, wtf do you expect to see in fool ring when you get in preflop
    • Pizzacat
      Pizzacat
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2009 Posts: 79
      Yeah, maybe I see problems where there aren't any.. i'm probably better off analyzing individual hands.. :D
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      I prefer standard ring games for this very reason, more solid sample size of hands/stats to optimize play.

      Basically it depends on the player imo. Some might 3bet frequently, but when you 4bet you are either going to fold them out with your high-equity hand or isolate yourself against a stronger range. Flat calling IP is definitely an option to keep weaker hands in the pot, then possibly 4bet/fold your trash if you are so inclined. Once you've 4bet AK etc, you pretty much have to call a 5bet shove given 100BB stacks.

      You basically have to separate these players from the idiots who 3bet bluff/light, then call a 4bet because they are annoyed they got re-raised.. Obviously these are better targets for a 4bet value raise, but even then you might opt to flat if they are likely to barrel off half their stack with air postflop. Naturally against these type of opponents 4bet bluffing is bad.

      Also remember 4bet shoving is an ok move to have in your arsenal (doesn't always have to be a 2.5x 4bet). Against a wide enough 3betting range a 4bet shove with AK can show an automatic profit and avoid tough postflop situations, even if it is not perhaps the most profitable line in any given scenario.

      Also, I think most would generally advise that OOP you are more inclined to 4bet or fold facing a 3bet, while in position it can often be profitable to flat call and use your positional advantage. (The larger the SPR the more valuable position is.)

      Anyways, not going to say you are necessarily doing anything wrong.....before you can identify something as a "leak" you generally need quite a large sample size, and in terms of reads it takes a long time to get reliable Ft4bet%. Just some stuff to think about next time you get into these spots.
    • Pizzacat
      Pizzacat
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2009 Posts: 79
      Thanks for the great post!

      Lately I've been thinking that it's time to quit rush and move back to standard games. I feel that its repeatedness and impossible variance is killing my brain :D
    • larvik74
      larvik74
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 6
      Here is a bad example why i have learned to to just call a raise when i have AKs on the pre-flop. My winning rate on AK in FTP Rush, is about 73% of the times. I think it is better to limp a raise on the pre-flop and see what the flop brings.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG2:
      $4.21
      MP1:
      $7.39
      MP2:
      $8.25
      MP3:
      $2.70
      CO:
      $2.17
      BU:
      $2.10
      SB:
      $4.95
      BB (Hero):
      $15.30
      UTG1:
      $7.92


      Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K.
      UTG1 raises to $0.17, 7 folds, Hero raises to $15.30, UTG1 calls $7.75(All-In).

      Flop: ($23.24) 5, 7, Q (2 players)


      Turn: ($23.24) 8 (2 players)


      River: ($23.24) 4 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $23.24.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows high card ace(A K).
      UTG1 shows a pair of queens(K Q).

      UTG1 wins with a pair of queens(K Q).
      -----------------------------------------------------


      Bad beat exemple 2:
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $1.41
      UTG1:
      $1.88
      UTG2:
      $2.00
      MP1:
      $5.04
      MP2:
      $2.02
      MP3:
      $1.95
      CO:
      $2.00
      BU (Hero):
      $2.03
      SB:
      $5.11


      Preflop: Hero is BU with K, A.
      6 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, SB folds, BB calls $0.15.

      Flop: ($0.42) T, 3, K (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.30, BB raises to $1.21(All-In), Hero calls $0.91.

      Turn: ($2.84) 5 (2 players)


      River: ($2.84) 9 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $2.84.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a pair of kings(K A).
      BB shows two pairs, tens and nines(T 9).

      BB wins with two pairs, tens and nines(T 9).
      ------------------------------------------------------------


      Winning exemple :
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG1:
      $3.13
      UTG2:
      $5.18
      MP1:
      $13.16
      MP2:
      $13.05
      MP3:
      $3.53
      CO:
      $7.06
      BU:
      $2.29
      SB:
      $10.20
      BB (Hero):
      $11.75


      Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K.
      3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.17, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.55, MP2 calls $0.38.

      Flop: ($1.12) 4, 6, 3 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.12, MP2 calls $1.12.

      Turn: ($3.36) K (2 players)
      Hero bets $10.08, MP2 folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $3.36.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by larvik74
      Here is a bad example why i have learned to to just call a raise when i have AKs on the pre-flop. My winning rate on AK in FTP Rush, is about 73% of the times. I think it is better to limp a raise on the pre-flop and see what the flop brings.

      Are u Grailer?
    • Pizzacat
      Pizzacat
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2009 Posts: 79
      Haha.. some impressive examples. :f_biggrin:
    • Snodreliss
      Snodreliss
      Silver
      Joined: 23.12.2007 Posts: 1,280
      call, 3bet, 4bet, shove or fold.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      with examples like these i don't think there's any doubt that we must never get it in preflop
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Ihufa problem with my mouse, it keeps clicking all-in.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      i think we might have the same mouse