[NL20-NL50] nl50 Rush - JJ facing flop and river ch/R

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      SB ($66.60)
      BB ($64.30)
      UTG ($135)
      UTG+1 ($30.45)
      CO ($50)
      Hero ($62.95)

      Dealt to Hero J:club: J:spade:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, fold, BB calls $1

      FLOP ($3.25) 3:spade: 6:diamond: 6:club:

      BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises to $5, Hero calls $3

      TURN ($13.25) 3:spade: 6:diamond: 6:club: 5:heart:

      BB checks, Hero bets $6.50, BB calls $6.50

      RIVER ($26.25) 3:spade: 6:diamond: 6:club: 5:heart: 2:diamond:

      BB checks, Hero bets $10.50, BB raises to $25, Hero calls $14.50

      villain 14/13/4 wts 28, 228 hs
  • 9 replies
    • AninIII
      AninIII
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2008 Posts: 944
      Hi,

      against that tight opponent, I'd check behind river because you can't stand the heat of a ch/r and I doubt that this opponent calls another bet with 77-TT.
      As played: bet/fold river, as you are beat nearly always.

      My guess is 44.
      What did he have?

      Best regards,
      Anin
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      yeah, I guess you´re beat very often when facing c/r, but if I´m going to valuebet I´d also b/c getting these odds.
      I´d also bet turn 7-8$ and likely take my free showdown, 2 isn´t the best river cards and I hate to b/c or b/f river and there isn´t really too many worse hands that might call us down
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Yeah - ch/b looks good guys.

      Kaitz20, if you are bet calling with these odds, is it because you assume villain will be bluff raising the river 20% of the time?

      Or because you think he can value raise with worse?

      thanks
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Why not raise the flop and get it in in this spot. He could be raising you here with almost his whole range just to take it down since you can't have much on this flop. This villian never has a 6 here and he 3-bets QQ+ so on the flop your only behind to 33 and 66 so thats 4 combos of hands. And there's a good chance his stacking off with like with like 77-TT or even worse PP if he thinks your full of shit.

      As played just play it safe and check back on the river and don't risk getting raised.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Yeah - ch/b looks good guys.

      Kaitz20, if you are bet calling with these odds, is it because you assume villain will be bluff raising the river 20% of the time?

      Or because you think he can value raise with worse?

      thanks
      first he took so strange line:
      c/r flop, c/c turn and c/r river. Not too may players take trips or boat that line and put him only on 44 is also quite hard. Second is your river bet size. Looks like you´re going for thin value, so he can maybe sometimes turn his middle pp into bluff and c/r river although that is likely only hand that we beat, since I think he is not really c/c turn with high card hands although with your turn bet size who knows. And third reason is that we get quite good odds and we can´t put him on a hand, so I think calling and seeing which hands he takes that line is fine even if we´re not ahead 20% to play better these spots to him against in the future
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Ok thanks.

      Despite the very narrow range that beats us on the flop, Im not sure there is any value to be had from 3betting flop, as MatejM47 suggests. Do you agree, Kaitz20?
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      I hate your line vs this guy.

      Sure, he can't have many value hands, but you can't bluffcatch the flop and then valuebet turn & valuebet/call shove on the river.

      You're good like 0.5% of the time here.

      Check back turn & call all rivers.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Sure, he can't have many value hands, but you can't bluffcatch the flop and then valuebet turn & valuebet/call shove on the river.


      Problem with checking back turn is that villain draws for free. So we give a hand like 45s all the way the river to hit his straight for just one $5 minR on flop...

      Well, on the river, if we put villain on 77/88/99/TT - which he may play this way too, we can certainly valuebet.

      Otherwise we allow anyone ch/Raising the flop to negate the value of our overpair and draw to however many outs they have for nothing.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Ok thanks.

      Despite the very narrow range that beats us on the flop, Im not sure there is any value to be had from 3betting flop, as MatejM47 suggests. Do you agree, Kaitz20?
      yeah, I would also b/c flop to let him bluff turn and river.
      You need first some kind of dynamic to the player that he thinks you´re capable 3-betting flop as bluff against what he is shoving his draws and worse pp-s or at least call 3-bet oop with worse hands
      366r board isn´t really a lot that he can have so by 3-betting we´re likely isolating against better hands