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Question about Call 20 on starting hands chart

    • rarama
      Joined: 23.10.2010 Posts: 15
      I fully understand the call 20 concept in the starting hand chart, but where I get confused is what's the right price when you get re-raised.

      For example in a .10-.25NL where everyone has 100BB

      Hero has 99 in MP raises $1.25
      Bu re-raises $4.1

      What should hero do? Because if he follows the call 20 rule he should fold. But the thing is don't you have 8:1 odds of flopping a set? Because if you call 2.85 you can win his entire stack of $25 + your original $1.25 + $0.35 blinds = $26.60. So to call $2.85 to get $26.60 you're getting better than 8:1.

      Another example is what if it's a multi-way pot?

      EP limps
      Hero has 1010 in MP raises $1.25
      BU re-raises $4.35
      EP calls

      What should hero do? Because if he follows the call 20 rule he should fold. But is that right, because there's already money in the pot with 2 other players.

      Personally, I've been calling in these type of situations, but I don't know if I'm right here or not.

      Thanks in advance for any help here.
  • 2 replies
    • AlCaTrAzzALZ
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 726
      Your assuming every time you call a 3bet and flop a set, that villain will stack off to you with worse...

      Situation 1 - without reads this is a pretty standard fold, your OOP and the only way you can really continue in the hand is flopping a set (since you have no idea where your at in the hand, it's hard to continue even on really dry boards or even if your 99 becomes an overpair on the flop)

      Situation 2 is a bit different, since we have some 'dead' money in the pot, the chances of either of them stacking off if we flop a set is alot better. again, it's read dependant, but given the passive line taken by EP so far in this hand, i doubt he's going to stack off too light. i see alot of players limp/call like this with small/medium PP, which again, dependant on reads could even include JJ/QQ if he's a real nitbox. we're OOP to the 3bettor again but with the increased odd's of getting paid off with a set, i think we can make the call here.
    • MatejM47
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Pretty much what he sad. The problem with your logic is that you stack your opponent everytime when you flop a set, which is definetly not true since he could be bluffing there with J5s and his never stacking off on a 2 5 9 board. Even if he has KK and the flop comes A 9 2 he probably won't stack off as well. So in general its not a good idea of calling 3-bets with small PP, especially OOP.

      However 99 isn't really that small of a PP and if you assume a reg is 3-betting wide you don't have to call only for set value as you can continue with your hand on many flops even when you don't hit a set. But even then its really hard to play your hand OOP so if you call 3-bets call them when you have position on your opponent.