[NL2-NL10] Fr Nl25

    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Here are two hands that, although they are different, I got the same doubt about how I played them. Did I play them too passive?

      In both hands the other players are loose-passive. I have no stats on them since I don't use PokerTracker (because I play on bodog).

      Hand 1:

      No Limit Hold'em
      Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
      Stacks
      Hero: $46.55
      UTG+1: $25.20

      Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with K :spade: J :diamond:
      1 fold, 1 call, 3 folds, 2 calls, Hero checks.

      Flop: J :heart: 9 :club: 4 :spade: ($1, 4 players)
      1 check, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $1.25, 2 folds, Hero calls.

      Turn: 6 :diamond: ($3.50, 2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $2.25, Hero calls.

      River: 4 :club: ($8, 2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

      Hand 2:

      No Limit Hold'em
      Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
      Stacks
      Hero: $25.55
      BTN: $24.65

      Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with J :spade: J :diamond:
      1 call, Hero calls, 1 fold, 2 calls, 1 fold, BTN bets $1.20, 2 folds, 4 calls.

      Flop: T :spade: 7 :spade: 2 :diamond: ($6.35, 5 players)
      1 check, Hero checks, 2 check, BTN bets $3.35, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds.

      Turn: 3 :club: ($13.05, 2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $8.05, Hero calls.

      River: Q :club: ($29.15, 2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks.
  • 13 replies
    • mchaggis
      mchaggis
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.09.2006 Posts: 157
      Hand 1:
      bet flop

      hand 2:
      raise preflop

      You don't know where you stand and you need information to play hands like that.
    • aanty2000
      aanty2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 484
      in hand 1 i think you played ok and you controled the pot . we must take in consideration that we were in an unraise pot OOP and from your read utg+1 can play a lot of hands that might beat you there.if utg+1 fired another bet on the river you had to fold .
      second hand is played way to passive . you should have raised pre and continued on the flop
    • Peter87
      Peter87
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2006 Posts: 13,565
      1) bet flop for information and protection. Against a raise it is a fold. If villian just calls, you are most ahead. Then you can play b/f turn + blockbet/fold river.

      2) raise preflop + contibet.
      as played it is quite difficult.
      c/c is bad. There are too many cards, you don´t like (Spade/A/K/Q/T).
      Checkraising the flop would committed you.

      as you can see, by limp/call preflop you get involved in a tough situation.
    • Floating
      Floating
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.07.2007 Posts: 132
      peter,

      about 1)

      why blockbet the flop here and not a 'regular' sized bet?
    • Peter87
      Peter87
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2006 Posts: 13,565
      no no :p


      on the flop, you should bet "regular", like 0,8$.

      blockbet/fold river.


      the blockbet alluded to the river, if you get called on flop+turn.
    • Floating
      Floating
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.07.2007 Posts: 132
      eh... i meant blockbet on the river?

      if i am not mistaken a blockbet refers to a small sized bet on the river.

      so why a small bet on the river?
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      With a blockbet it is your goal to see a cheap showdown because you don't know whether you have the best hand. If you check and face a huge bet you have a tough decision. By blockbetting you achieve your goals. Since you know that if you get raised the opponent has a better hand than you. If he calls you might have the best hand or lose less money against a better hand. For further information about blokbets please read this article (gold status required): http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/263/

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Ok, first, thx for all the feedback. But I still don't agree with a few things. I'm a pain in the ass. =)


      Hand 1:
      I don't think I played wrong. I was OOP and trying to control the pot size, since the board was not too dangerous, I don't think I was taking a great risk by just calling the flop and turn. I agree that a blocking bet on the river would have been nice though.


      Hand 2:
      JJ is a hand I usually don't raise pre-flop in EP, wich in my opinion is not a wrong play.
      Sklanky on his book (no limit hold'em: theory and practice) says that the hand strength pre-flop doesn't matter too much (in a deep stack game), and position is much more important.
      I'm not saying I think it's wrong to raise JJ in EP pre-flop, I'm just explaining why I did it. And why I don't think it's wrong.
      Well, but on post-flop play. I must admit I really sucked! :D Should've been more agressive.


      Once again thx for the feedback. Any more opinions are welcome.
    • Zeffke
      Zeffke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.04.2007 Posts: 1,123
      Hand 2: I strongly disagree with mr. Sklansky about his JJ in EP , but who am I... But it's just a fact that JJ is very very difficult to play postflop OOP in an unraised pot. If you limp them, you're actually only playing them for set value imo because there are overcards on the flop in about 70% or something...
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      I don't think there are overcards on the flop in 70%... I haven't calculated it myself, but I believe it's much less.

      But anyway, let's say you raise, and there are overcards on the flop, I don't think it makes a big difference. You're probably not seeing a 6-handed flop, but you're still OOP, with overcards on the board.

      As I said, I also don't think it's wrong to raise, I just don't see a lot of advantage in doing so.

      But thx for the feedback, really apreciated. :)
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      With a blockbet it is your goal to see a cheap showdown because you don't know whether you have the best hand. If you check and face a huge bet you have a tough decision. By blockbetting you achieve your goals. Since you know that if you get raised the opponent has a better hand than you. If he calls you might have the best hand or lose less money against a better hand. For further information about blokbets please read this article (gold status required): http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/263/

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
      Isn't this dangerous ?
      For me, I sometimes see other PokerStrategy members doing what you just said and even if I missed my draw or have a mediocre hand, I just raise his small bet on the river (if both stacks are still big enough to be nowhere near a push situation) and they fold 80 % of the times.
      It's easily exploitable and just screams "weakness here !" :evil:
      Perhaps I bluff too much, but it feels like EV+ to just raise any small riverbet (except if I know the player is a rock)
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Originally posted by SonicXT
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      With a blockbet it is your goal to see a cheap showdown because you don't know whether you have the best hand. If you check and face a huge bet you have a tough decision. By blockbetting you achieve your goals. Since you know that if you get raised the opponent has a better hand than you. If he calls you might have the best hand or lose less money against a better hand. For further information about blokbets please read this article (gold status required): http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/263/

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
      Isn't this dangerous ?
      For me, I sometimes see other PokerStrategy members doing what you just said and even if I missed my draw or have a mediocre hand, I just raise his small bet on the river (if both stacks are still big enough to be nowhere near a push situation) and they fold 80 % of the times.
      It's easily exploitable and just screams "weakness here !" :evil:
      Perhaps I bluff too much, but it feels like EV+ to just raise any small riverbet (except if I know the player is a rock)
      That is exactly why I sometimes also make small valuebets on the river if I have a monster like degnic did it in one of his hands: NL50SH trapping

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Yea ok, but NL10 folks don't think that way :D