PokerStars 250 BB Max Tables NL

    • p0rkus
      Joined: 03.03.2009 Posts: 230
      On pokerstars you can buy in for 250BB for NL2 ($5). I understand that as per Big Stack Strategy concepts, we should buy in as much as possible not to lose value to those villains who have more than just 100 blinds. But does this influence BRM? For me moving up a limit is at $125 because pokerstars only has 2/5 and not 2/4cent tables - do we consider it violation of BRM to buy in with $5? Should we start to buy in with $4 when we have $100? It is a little confusing because despite the fact that we may not be playing higher blinds, simply higher stacks, we are capable of loosing much more when we encounter a player with 250BB. Any advice?

      Personally I do not feel like buying in with 200-250 BB until i become more comfortable with the limit.
  • 5 replies
    • justkyle88
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,613
      Hey p0rkus,

      Generally whatever BI you sit down at the table you should count as 1BI. Whether or not you mix your BI's I would suggest a more conservative BR if you were to BI this deep.
      The main reason you should BI this deep is if a fish has a more than 100bb stack.
      If we BI for whatever the fish's stack is we can effectively win that amount.
      If we only sit with 100bb we can obviously only win that much so we loss value vs fish.

      BUT, and this is a big BUT....
      If you are not comfortable in any way whether it be the limit/your a beginner or playing deep you should NOT BI this deep. You might get involved vs regs or gd players and start losing a lot of money.


    • JonikoP
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      BRM considerations should be the same - only buy in with 5% of your bankroll (or whatever BRM is right for you and your stakes).

      Bear in mind that strategy changes a lot when the stacks get this deep and you are likely to face more difficult decisions. But, as you say, against weaker players you are maximising your edge.
    • pzhon
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      It is a bad idea to choose the amount you bring to the table based on the percentage of your buy-in. Playing with a 50 bb stack is different from playing with a 200 bb stack, and the main difference is not variance. If you learn to play with one stack depth, you might be a winning player if you buy in for that amount, but a losing player if you buy in for a different amount. If you turn yourself into a losing player, you are not making your bankroll safe, you are setting it on fire.

      The percentage of your bankroll on the table is not important. You can be safer with very deep stacks and 10% of your bankroll on the table than with a short stack and 1% of your bankroll on each table. This is because you get all-in much more often, and with less of an edge, when you play winning short stack poker than when you play winning deep stack poker. Even if you have 1000 bb at the table, most of your opponents will have much less, and the occasional other player with 1000 bb will rarely get all-in against you. So, you should not say that whatever you buy in for is 1 buy-in and then use someone's favorite number as your number of buy-ins. That would be inconsistent, and it may lead you to decide you are not bankrolled for games which are safe, while you play in games where you are not safe.

      A more consistent guideline, but one which is more complicated, is to use the following:

      bankroll = comfort * standard deviation^2 /win rate

      Your standard deviation is measured by some programs like PokerTracker. You may find that your standard deviation increases slightly as the effective stack depth increases, but not proportionally.

      How your win rate depends on the effective stack depth depends on your skill and the types of mistakes you are exploiting. I can't tell you what your win rate is, and it is something you will only know approximately yourself. You can see from the formula that doubling your win rate cuts your bankroll requirements in half, and vice versa.

      Your comfort level depends on your risk tolerance and willingness to move down if you hit a bad stretch. If you win in several forms of poker, you can use the same comfort level in each. A comfort level of 1 corresponds to the Kelly Criterion, which most people find too aggressive. A comfort level of 2 is considered aggressive. A comfort level of 4 is considered conservative.

      If you use realistic estimates for your win rate and standard deviation in the NL games with a $0.02 big blind, you will probably find that you don't need $100 to be safe even if you are buying in for $5 on each table. In general, you don't need as many buy-ins in soft microstakes games as experts need in tough medium-high stakes games. These seem to contradict flat guidelines like "20 buy-ins" or "5%," and that is because those guidelines are wrong. They are too simple to apply to a wide variety of poker games. Instead, I recommend using a formula like the one I gave above, or schedules of buy-ins which reflect reasonable win rates at each level and depth.
    • p0rkus
      Joined: 03.03.2009 Posts: 230
      Thank you!
      'Someone's favourite number' :)
      BRM is obviously not an exact science, and it is nice to hear the reasoning for not being completely rigid. A good post on the personal side of BRM :)
    • SickAtHome
      Joined: 19.05.2010 Posts: 465
      For me, I usually buy in for 100 BB's.
      If I spot a nice fish, then I can add up another 150 BB's so I can keep the fish covered.

      Helps if you're not exactly the greatest with super deep stacks.