[NL20-NL50] NL 50 55 set

    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      UTG ($51.40)
      MP ($55.85)
      CO ($50.75)
      Button ($63.75)
      Hero (SB) ($50.25)
      BB ($67.55)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, 5
      2 folds, CO bets $1.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.25, BB calls $1

      Flop: ($4.50) A, 5, 10 (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $3, Hero calls $3, 1 fold

      Turn: ($10.50) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $7, Hero raises $15, 1 fold

      Total pot: $24.50


      Villan is 20/16 with 4,9 aggr. factor (4,6 flop, 5,7 turn and 7 river). WTS 24

      I know it's quite standard but my line looks way too strong.

      I wonder what you think about alternative lines. I was thinking about calling turn and donkbetting river or maybe c/r river with no spade on it.
      People are not used to c/r on rivers so I could get calls from 2 pairs, maybe TPTK ...
      On the other hand there's gutshot and flush draw possible, so is it just 100% c/r?
  • 11 replies
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,779
      If you try to be too tricky, you will let any drawing hand get there too cheap. Turn raise is standard for a reason: you have a strong hand and want to build the pot and get all-in if possible.

      I even think about raising on the flop.

      If neither player has Ax, you are not going to stack them. Better to build the pot when you can. But if you dont raise flop, raise turn is more or less forced.

      Otherwise what? You check river and sometimes villain gets scared and just checks behind.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Have to agree. Hard to get value if he doesn't have an ace. If you wan't to get stacks in you have to check raise at some point. And its pretty easy for him to put you on a set since your cold calling range from the blinds are mainly PP and high brodways after you c/r the turn.

      Since he has a very high river aggression it might be better to c/c the turn and c/c a river bet, depending on what ugly card may hit since his probably barreling all of them. You can never fold tho even if You can also consider donking on the river if it blanks out since it makes it easier for him to call you down with an ace. But when you raise the turn he knows the river shove is comming and he can't even continue with TPTK if he has it since he doesn't want to go broke with it.

      The problem is he can easily have a draw on the turn. There are many OESD possible not just gutshots. QJ has OSED and J9 as well as 67 which are in his CO open range which he is barreling with 2 streets on this board and you can never be sure if you got sucked out unless the river blanks out so its hard to C/R the river. So the raise on the turn is pretty much a must on that board. If the turn would be a blank you could just call the turn and decide on the river.
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      Don't like a flop check/raise on this super dry board, better to give BB a chance to call with some crappy hand.

      Turn check/raise can never be too bad, although it does look mighty strong.

      Other (and probably better) option is to lead turn small-ish (6.00 or so), to hopefully induce a raise from a draw he may have picked up (or two pair obviously). That way you almost guarantee that two more bets go in vs AK/AQ/AJ.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,779
      Turn lead definitely interesting...
      Main downside is that villain can just call, in which case less $ goes in.

      falcone1983,

      if we lead turn, and villain does just call. Would you check dry river in the hope of getting a bet from villain now draws missed and check/r or just lead out again?

      thanks
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      Basically no, because I expect his turn calling range to be heavy in AK/AQ/AJ, and I want to make sure I get a riverbet from them.

      If you're positive he will bet those hands on a blank river, you can go ahead and check/raise to maximize your value vs missed draws and weak two pairs.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Players would very likely b/f there AK/AQ every single time and likely get all-in with two pair+ or at least call once.
      There are some draws that he can barrel, but if you c/r that small then he also get odds to hit his straight
      So if you c/c flop I think you have to c/c turn and then you have option leading river half potsize bet and expect to get called by AQ/AK but if it is 2d then you can also check expecting he would bluff with missed draws and valuebet AQ+
      If river is scare flushcard or smt then just call him down
    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      How about c/r flop and then c/r turn too?
      Maybe he would try to protect from some draws and I can get lots of money out of Ax hands ...
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Platinum
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,287
      Very often after he cbet flop I'd say most of the time he has a made hand that is Ax and probably some Tx.So i generally dislike turn raise because he will fold almost all his range and only call AT,Tx+ flusdraw,TT,AA which in my view is super super small part of his overall range and not even sure he will be betting Tx 3 way pot instead of pot controlling IP so I kinda Think he won't show there with Tx+flushdraw.So mainly Ax hands.All Ax hands are folding to check/raise turn so i like check/calling most of the time and donking 1/2 river.1/2 because he will have good odds to call you down Ax and you leave him some room to call weaker A.
    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      Yeah, and what if you donk the river and get raised, river card being spade or sth that completes straight?
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Platinum
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,287
      Originally posted by z1pz0r
      Yeah, and what if you donk the river and get raised, river card being spade or sth that completes straight?
      if river is obviously a spade or straight card you can check/call but If you followed my logic he is almost never going to have this at the river unless HE IS SUPER AGRESSIVE.Though people don't tend to fire in multiway pots with draws unless they are OESD/Flushdraw.So I don't think he is super good saying: well i got gutshot,backdoor flushdraw I got position also i can barrel this and many turn cards.But if you do that you don't achieve much,hence Tx will fold and all Ax will call.So it's pretty much about you and your opponent if you both fold much on cbets i'd barrel on his place.So next time have a read about his cbeting %.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by z1pz0r
      How about c/r flop and then c/r turn too?
      Maybe he would try to protect from some draws and I can get lots of money out of Ax hands ...
      is reasonable, if you think he would be turn and think you as aggro. But generally they would very often check back turn and then call or fold to river bet. So If you c/r flop, you´re reping in his eyes air, so better keep on betting on the turn and shoving river. He might not bet Ax and definitely not weaker hands on the turn himself.