[NL20-NL50] nl50 Rush - KQo mwp

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      SB ($313)
      BB ($77.65)
      UTG ($50)
      UTG+1 ($50.30)
      Hero ($116)
      BTN ($50.25)

      Dealt to Hero Q:club: K:heart:

      UTG raises to $1.75, fold, Hero calls $1.75, fold, fold, BB calls $1.25

      FLOP ($5.50) Q:heart: 7:spade: 7:club:

      BB bets $0.50, UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50

      TURN ($17.50) Q:heart: 7:spade: 7:club: 5:diamond:

      BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

      RIVER ($17.50) Q:heart: 7:spade: 7:club: 5:diamond: 2:diamond:

      BB checks, UTG bets $13.50, Hero folds, BB calls $13.50

      utg 22/19/3 wts 31, 374hs, BB unkn fish.
      Is our hand strong enough to raise flop for value?

      I actually also thought this was a spot where we are raising for information.
      (i.e. When we get two callers I wont make a big mistake if I invest no more $ in the pot?).

      Easy fold on the river?

      thanks
  • 6 replies
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      Definitely raise/fold flop.

      It's not an inforaise, it's just a valueraise (i.e. you won't get 3bet by worse, but you will get called by worse).

      I'd be tempted to valuebet turn as well, but against two players it might be slightly too optimistic.

      I hate the riverfold. I think you're good here plenty of times (if he has a non-boat better hand, wtf is he doing on earlier streets?!).
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      I have to disagree here. What is a reg betting on the river (clear vbet imo) that we beat, which he called our raise with on the flop after our raise had already been called?

      There are no draws, so imo he has to have AQ minimum. Given UTG also cold called our flop raise the reg has to assume we both have a hand. He cant be value betting here with KQ or worse since (even assuming he hasnt got 7x himself), he has to consider the possibility one of us does.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I think UTG would mostly raise flop with better hands than KQ, so I like your flop raise for value and I think you can also b/f turn to 10$
      Although there isn´t really any draws, players should call your turn bet with weaker Qx hands and some of them may also easily have there TT/JJ
      I would likely also call river, since I think UTG should raise mostly on the flop better hand than yours, so you should be good enough times to make call profitable
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Hmmm. Well turned out utg had 77 for Quads (hence why he was slowplaying it so hard).

      Still think we cant call on river.

      Dont think utg is ever valuebetting TT/JJ here. I dont know what hands utg would raise on flop. He cant raise QA, since I or BB may have 7x. If he has 7x he may raise but doesnt need to protect really and so maybe he tries to keep both players in.

      Even AA/KK should be frightened to 3b flop - they cant expect to be called by worse.
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,274
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Hmmm. Well turned out utg had 77 for Quads (hence why he was slowplaying it so hard).

      Still think we cant call on river.

      Dont think utg is ever valuebetting TT/JJ here. I dont know what hands utg would raise on flop. He cant raise QA, since I or BB may have 7x. If he has 7x he may raise but doesnt need to protect really and so maybe he tries to keep both players in.

      Even AA/KK should be frightened to 3b flop - they cant expect to be called by worse.
      It's more about the action before you:

      BB raise to 0.50$, UTG call 0.50$,once he does this he is never having AQ/KK/AA so only 77/QQ there.If he had strong Qx/overpairs he would do the same you did and pot control turn if called by 2.I'd also call river but probably would be feared to see BB with 7x
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Hmmm. Well turned out utg had 77 for Quads (hence why he was slowplaying it so hard).

      Still think we cant call on river.

      Dont think utg is ever valuebetting TT/JJ here. I dont know what hands utg would raise on flop. He cant raise QA, since I or BB may have 7x. If he has 7x he may raise but doesnt need to protect really and so maybe he tries to keep both players in.

      Even AA/KK should be frightened to 3b flop - they cant expect to be called by worse.
      yeah, I agree he shouldn´t bet too often worse hands, but his line also doesn´t make any sense to put him on AQ/KK/AA
      SO he is either have there QQ/77 or some weaker hand. If you think you never see there Qjs or QK then river fold is fine, I just think that his range is just wider than quads or full boat