[NL2-NL10] AJs 3bet called NL25 RUSH MSS

    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      BB ($5.10)
      UTG ($29.34)
      UTG+1 ($10.83)
      MP1 ($33.66)
      Hero (MP2) ($11.25)
      MP3 ($9.30)
      CO ($19.80)
      Button ($22.02)
      SB ($35.32)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, A
      2 folds, MP1 bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.60, 5 folds, MP1 calls $1.85

      Flop: ($5.55) 4, A, 10 (2 players)
      MP1 checks, Hero bets $2, MP1 calls $2

      Turn: ($9.55) Q (2 players)
      MP1 checks, Hero checks

      River: ($9.55) 9 (2 players)
      MP1 bets $5, Hero calls $5

      Total pot: $19.55 | Rake: $0.97


      With this one villain has a pfr of 15 so even though I am isolating myself against the high part of his range I am aggead of his range preflop.

      On the flop I bet small to get value on hands like JJ, QQ,KK.
      The river bet puzzled me but, I have showed weakness with small cbet, check turn so I thought it could well be a bluff.

      Should I have folded?
  • 7 replies
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Hi,

      Why do you cbet that small? I have seen that in other hands as well. Just bet $3 imo.
      check turn is fine and the river call is mandatory because you checked turn and induced a bluff.

      T.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hey thazar,

      Against 15 PFR player I would call AJs IP for value. If you 3-bet here you isolate yourself against a range you are no longer ahead of.

      As played, I would make a decent 3-3.5$ c-bet on the flop and give up if called/raised.

      River, as played, I don't see any worse hand betting there nor I see him floating in 3-bet pot OOP thus I fold to half pot bet.

      Regards,
      burek2000
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Hi,

      Hmm I think I was too quick with my reaction.

      I would still 3bet but I would 3bet to only $2 ~2,5x his raise. This because people usually fold more than 60% (maybe even more in Rush).

      Then on this board cbet/fold and c/f other streets. You only beat QQ and KK and those will not bet the river them self.

      T.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I think you can get more value (EV) if you call and let KJ/QJ/JT/AT/A9 barrel off and so on. An argument against calling is that your range is capped but hey your playing 40bb anyway so that counters it

      other options:
      3bet/folding sucks
      3bet and getting called sucks because his range is primarily TT-QQ, AQ,AK sometimes , KQ etc.

      As played I would check back Flop, where the f do you get value from?
      Moreover, this hand is a 2 street of value hand. Look at his range and where you want to get value from. Would those hands call 2 barrels on F/T or rather more on the T/R ? IMO you don't rep anything if you check back Flop on ATx and then start barreling


      The river bet puzzled me but, I have showed weakness with small cbet, check turn so I thought it could well be a bluff.
      One should more look at the pot odds and then count the combo's in his range that you beat (bluffs) and the amount of combo's he is by default betting River

      - Gerv
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by Gerv
      other options:
      3bet/folding sucks
      - Gerv
      Hi,

      I think I disagree here. With SSS 3bet/fold sux since your commited anyway. If you read the MSS articles, it states that the 3bet itself is +EV if villain folds something like 60% or more. But you have to 3bet smaller (cant read them now bcause I'm Silver...).

      Plus, in Rush, lots of people fold way too much to 3bets.

      T.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by Tampaloeres81
      Originally posted by Gerv
      other options:
      3bet/folding sucks
      - Gerv
      Hi,

      I think I disagree here. With SSS 3bet/fold sux since your commited anyway. If you read the MSS articles, it states that the 3bet itself is +EV if villain folds something like 60% or more. But you have to 3bet smaller (cant read them now bcause I'm Silver...).

      Plus, in Rush, lots of people fold way too much to 3bets.

      T.
      Sure if you need 65% FEQ and you have 70% FEQ then you are +EV but how much in concrete numbers? I think it is not a whopping 5bb per hand or something but more a thin 1bb

      So when you compare that to calling pre where you have a lot of wiggle room ( turn into bluff, let Regs fold everything except the nuts etc.) I think your EV is way higher than a measly 1bb

      The only downside now is your position.


      Commenting about your Rush argument. People also fold way too much Post/Turn/River because they thin kthey can find a better spot to put their money in.

      And thinking about it; people's preflop game is improving way faster than F/T/River game which means that at some point trying to solve everything preflop just doesn't make you as much money as if you were dragging it to the Flop/Turn bluffs
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      that is my main issue coming from an SSS background my preflop game is much better than postflop that is why my raise. I would call if I knew how to play better postflop at the moment calling I think would be a mistake for me but much better if i had a better game postflop