[NL20-NL50] NL25 QQ(co), on mono, sh

    • TetraQuark
      TetraQuark
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,520
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      SB:
      $10.10
      BB:
      $25.40
      MP3:
      $29.61
      CO (Hero):
      $25.35
      BU:
      $48.79


      Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, Q.
      MP3 folds, Hero raises to $1.00, BU calls $1.00, 2 folds, BB folds.

      Flop: ($2.35) J, 9, 2 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $1.60, Hero calls $1.60.

      Turn: ($5.55) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $3.70, Hero calls $3.70.

      River: ($12.95) K (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $8.60, Hero calls $8.60.

      Final Pot: $30.15.

      Hi!

      Villain is 21/20/inf / 3b 7.1% 90hs

      Flop - If I bet I get value only from his fd`s, given he is very aggro I decide to give him a chance to bluff himself.
      Turn - The same
      River - Is tricky, but given the fact there are so many busted draws he will barrel (AhQx, AhJx other AhXx) I am beat only by AhKx and AhKh(which he is 3b pf 100%) + QT which is very unlikely he would play his QxTh(4th nuts) this way + I hold two blockers to his QT combos which makes my call pretty easy.

      Your thoughts?

      Thanks!
  • 6 replies
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      I'm confused.

      His value range is way wider than what you give: any Axhh, KThh, T8hh, 87hh, 76hh, 65hh, QTs, 99, 22, KJ, maybe J9s/98s. He has to bluff an awful lot to make the rivercall profitable.

      Anyway, I just cbet this flop and play for stacks (and this is not contradictory with what I said earlier, his range to raise flop is way weaker than his range to barrel 3 streets here).

      As played I like check/raise turn (it's a very good card for you).
    • TetraQuark
      TetraQuark
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,520
      I think bluff range I cited up above covers the value range u quoted by three times(and it is as possible as the value range he might have). + There is a slight probability him barreling with complete air cuz my c/c line looks like fd only and a large probability him bareling river when it blanks.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I would rather two barrel myself on that spot and then c/c river rather than start c/c him down. He may barrel there with air or worse hands and you have to call him down but it is very hard to balance, so I´d rather take aggressive line and bet myself flop and turn for value
    • TetraQuark
      TetraQuark
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,520
      I am affraid I don`t get this on.

      1. So u are saying I should barrel in order to get the stacks in here on flop or turn? I am new in sh so I don`t really know how do ppl play oc`s and fd`s combos here. Do they go broke on flop directly?

      2. Most of the times I cbet flop and on monoboard get a fold 90% of the time.

      Let`s say I barrel flop, he calls. He is doing that with a pair or fd. Than I barrel turn, he calls. I c/c river. This line costs me aprox. same amount of bb`s as my c/c line.
      But on the other hand I can not call his shove on river plus I don`t let him semibluff two streets and potentialy bluff busted draws on river.
      Again if he is valuebetting me 3streets I loose the same amount of bb`s as I would if I played bet/bet/c/c.
      But I loose all the value I get from his bluffs if I use last mentioned line(cuz it increases probability of him folding turn or river). And his semibluffing range is waaaay wider than his value range. Off the top of my head speaking if he turns his semibluffs into pur bluffs on river with only one third of his range it is prolly 50:50.
    • TwiceT
      TwiceT
      Black
      Joined: 15.07.2007 Posts: 4,796
      incredibly player dependent. overall i like the line and i use it very regularly.


      i think bet/broke this flop is overplayed and a losing play in the long run, even against an aggressive plr. vs over aggro or maniac, i bet/shove.



      in these spots, esp when c/c 3 times, dont start to think too much about his range, but focus on your perceived range. after that, think about his range and then his tendencies (capable of vbetting thinly? etc). i think parts of your perceived range improved with the K on the river (he def. puts AhKx, AxKh) into your range etc .... so the river is rly tricky. i can probably only find an answer when seeing his timing on the river.

      i usually fold this spot vs most plrs, cuz i think my perceived range doesnt fold too often here. esp when i have some stats/notes on them


      however, when i dont have written notes ... i usually call cuz the price is not soo bad, i might be ahead often enough not to make it hugely -ev and the most important aspect: i can get to see his hand + he sees my hand which gives me a lot of info usually and changes our metagame quite a bit and i think i will be adapting more optimally given the new info
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Gregor86
      I am affraid I don`t get this on.

      1. So u are saying I should barrel in order to get the stacks in here on flop or turn? I am new in sh so I don`t really know how do ppl play oc`s and fd`s combos here. Do they go broke on flop directly?

      2. Most of the times I cbet flop and on monoboard get a fold 90% of the time.

      Let`s say I barrel flop, he calls. He is doing that with a pair or fd. Than I barrel turn, he calls. I c/c river. This line costs me aprox. same amount of bb`s as my c/c line.
      But on the other hand I can not call his shove on river plus I don`t let him semibluff two streets and potentialy bluff busted draws on river.
      Again if he is valuebetting me 3streets I loose the same amount of bb`s as I would if I played bet/bet/c/c.
      But I loose all the value I get from his bluffs if I use last mentioned line(cuz it increases probability of him folding turn or river). And his semibluffing range is waaaay wider than his value range. Off the top of my head speaking if he turns his semibluffs into pur bluffs on river with only one third of his range it is prolly 50:50.
      I can understand if you want to c/c hand that doesn´t want to get raised, like TT, Jx without flushdraw or maybe even overpair without flushdraw, but here you basically have top of you range and you choose to c/c rather than c-bet then you can´t really c-bet there with your draws, since he knows you´re only basically going to c-bet with your J9+ that you´re going to play for stacks and all your draws that you would probably b/f. There are so many times where you have some equity on that board starting with 44h and ending quite ok flushdraws, like ATh, KQh, that you would like to take pot down on the flop rather than c/c. So he can really mess with you a lot of times if you c-bet there by floating or raising a lot of hands. So for balance option I prefer c-bet and even if you take pot down close to 80% you don´t mind, since you also prefer taking pot down another times where you don´t have as strong hand as yours that can c/c 3 barrels.