[NL20-NL50] NL25 SH KJ on SB

    • erla777
      erla777
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2009 Posts: 15
      No stats, villain just joined the table. Was betting on the river good or it was overplayed? :) Thanks.


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter: Play hand $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)


      Known players:
      BB:
      $19.40
      CO:
      $27.38
      BU:
      $24.50
      SB (Hero):
      $46.30



      Preflop: Hero is SB with J, K. CO folds, BU calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.00, BB folds, BU calls $0.75.


      Flop: ($2.25) 8, 3, 8 (2 players) Hero bets $1.25, BU calls $1.25.


      Turn: ($4.75) J (2 players) Hero bets $3.00, BU calls $3.00.


      River: ($10.75) 7 (2 players) Hero bets $5.50, BU calls $5.50.


      Final Pot: $21.75.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • 10 replies
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      Well it seems extremely thin since the only hands you could get value from are TT/99.

      I think check/folding is ok.
    • erla777
      erla777
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2009 Posts: 15
      He was bronze star and playing just 1 table, that ussually means that player is weak, he could have anything. Btw he showed 48o lol
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I think river valuebet is fine
      As you said he can have there with anything and call you down very light
    • erla777
      erla777
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2009 Posts: 15
      ok, thanks
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      I disagree.
      His range for calling on flop is 8x/3x/flushdraws and medium pairs 44-77, 99-TT (unless he is complete idiot).

      By the river, we only beat 3x and the medium pairs and in my opinion he is not often calling a riverbet on a board with a possible flush against someone who raised pre and bet 3 streets.

      So I think once you get called, it is by better hands. I prefer chk/f. If villain bets, I assume he has at least 8x. I dont think he bets his medium pairs on the river (he can check/behind with sd value) so we dont need to worry he bluffs us out.
    • erla777
      erla777
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2009 Posts: 15
      I think that preflop open limp with 48o and then call a raise with this trash hand means that he is complete idiot :D
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      I think that preflop open limp with 48o and then call a raise with this trash hand means that he is complete idiot


      You are absolutely right: once we know his cards, we can say that he is complete idiot -- no question about that. But remember that we have to make our decision on the River without this information. we have to be careful not to be results orientated and only use information about villain that we have at our disposal at the time when the decision is made.

      We can't just assume that he is complete idiot. We might make a reasonable assumption that he is not a strong player but that's not the same thing.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      I disagree.
      His range for calling on flop is 8x/3x/flushdraws and medium pairs 44-77, 99-TT (unless he is complete idiot).

      By the river, we only beat 3x and the medium pairs and in my opinion he is not often calling a riverbet on a board with a possible flush against someone who raised pre and bet 3 streets.

      So I think once you get called, it is by better hands. I prefer chk/f. If villain bets, I assume he has at least 8x. I dont think he bets his medium pairs on the river (he can check/behind with sd value) so we dont need to worry he bluffs us out.
      His calling range on the fop is definitely wider than 8x/3x/flushdraws and medium pairs 44-77, 99-TT. I think very often A high, some backdoor flushdraws with overcard and maybe just overcards like JT, T9
      If he doesn´t raise at any point I think we should be ahead, so I would go there 3 streets for value instead of c/f river
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      His calling range on the fop is definitely wider than 8x/3x/flushdraws and medium pairs 44-77, 99-TT. I think very often A high, some backdoor flushdraws with overcard and maybe just overcards like JT, T9 If he doesn´t raise at any point I think we should be ahead, so I would go there 3 streets for value instead of c/f river


      okay, I definitely agree that he can have a wider range for calling on the flop.

      Of course if you include T9, he has a straight on the River so we can't value bet against that ;)

      but we are not asking what his range is for calling a bet on the flop, we are asking what his range is for calling a bet on the flop + turn + River. so even if he has A high on the flop, he is surely not calling a bet on the River with just ace high?

      So I still want to understand how many hands you think he has on the River that we beat and that he will call a bet with - is it only JT?

      Thanks
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      His calling range on the fop is definitely wider than 8x/3x/flushdraws and medium pairs 44-77, 99-TT. I think very often A high, some backdoor flushdraws with overcard and maybe just overcards like JT, T9 If he doesn´t raise at any point I think we should be ahead, so I would go there 3 streets for value instead of c/f river


      okay, I definitely agree that he can have a wider range for calling on the flop.

      Of course if you include T9, he has a straight on the River so we can't value bet against that ;)

      but we are not asking what his range is for calling a bet on the flop, we are asking what his range is for calling a bet on the flop + turn + River. so even if he has A high on the flop, he is surely not calling a bet on the River with just ace high?

      So I still want to understand how many hands you think he has on the River that we beat and that he will call a bet with - is it only JT?

      Thanks
      He would very likely fold Ax to our river bet, but I think he would call us down with any pair, since he is weak player and won´t really put us on monster most of the times. So his range should be J2+, 22+