how much to bet

  • 9 replies
    • MeanGreen
      MeanGreen
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2007 Posts: 862
      You don't want to make it too cheap for players to act behind you to see a flop. If you bet too high you might not get enough callers. But this is of course only a general rule. On higher limits like 100NL and above you should adapt to the tightness of the table, but on lower limits 4+1bb per limper should be fine.

      If you apply the concept of steals and resteals in your play you might open raise to 3bb from the BU/CO, but only if nobody has entered the pot yet, if there are limpers/posters make it 4+1bb again.

      Is there a specific reason you think 4+1bb isn't right?
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      On the micros I would prefer to bet bigger rather than smaller. You tend to get called a lot anyway so raising big with a tighter range is good.

      On a higher limit you will mostly pick up the blinds when you raise. In these scenarios you would prefer to raise smaller. Sometimes you might be on a tight table in the micros where you can raise smaller. 2.5x + 1 to steal the blinds can be an effective raise in this situation.

      But at your tables it is against the law for most players to fold a hand like KJ. Just make it 4x to get max value out of your AQ. 3/4 potsize to potsize bets all the way to clean out the fish.
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Playing SSS you are playing only your big hands preflop, the higher you bet, the more value you get out of them and the lower the implied odds you leave for you opponents post flop
    • m00m1lk
      m00m1lk
      Global
      Joined: 04.12.2010 Posts: 2
      i play micro limits and most people fold at just about 3BB+1BB so i thought i might bet lower, but i see the logic behind 4BB+1B now. thanks.

      another question: what is the reason for the +1BB? why cant i just raise a plain 4BB?
    • MrMardyBum
      MrMardyBum
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 2,206
      Because if you only raise 4x BB and there are 3 limpers behind you give better odds for players to call.


      3BB's (limpers) + 4BB (your raise) + 1.5BB's (the blinds) = 8.5BB's and players that still need to act only have to invest 4BB's to see a flop with odds of 2:1 and that doesn't include the limpers who now get to call for 3BB's or 3:1 (almost). Also, this doesn't include implied odds (the chance that the limpers will call).

      I think that makes sense - Hope so anyway :)

      Here you go http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1564/1/ all about implied odds. Should help you see it clearer than I can. :)
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by MrMardyBum
      Because if you only raise 4x BB and there are 3 limpers behind you give better odds for players to call.


      3BB's (limpers) + 4BB (your raise) + 1.5BB's (the blinds) = 8.5BB's and players that still need to act only have to invest 4BB's to see a flop with odds of 2:1 and that doesn't include the limpers who now get to call for 3BB's or 3:1 (almost). Also, this doesn't include implied odds (the chance that the limpers will call).

      I think that makes sense - Hope so anyway :)

      Here you go http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1564/1/ all about implied odds. Should help you see it clearer than I can. :)
      close but not quite :)

      To get 2:1 odds or better to any one that would call you, you need to make a pot size bet (2:1 odds only apply top first caller).

      to get a pot size bet: 3x amount of the last bet + money previously in the pot.

      examples:

      you are first in: last bet as such is BB so 3x 1bb + SB. so effectively a pot size bet is 3.5BB if you are first in, we round it at 4BB.

      pot is now 5.5bb, ifevery one folds to BB and BB wants to call you he needs to put 3bb for a pot of 5.5bb (<2:1 odds)


      2 limpers: 3x 1BB + 2.5BB =5.5bb (rounded at 6bb)


      pot is now at 9.5bb, any one already in who wants to call will need to put in 5bb to call for a 9.5bb pot (<2:1 odds)

      remember you want as much value from your big hands and poker is a game of small edges. You need to wait for your opponents to make mistake and at lower stakes they will more often than not.


      GLATT
    • MrMardyBum
      MrMardyBum
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 2,206
      Yeah I meant before in my post not behind - It was late
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by MeanGreen
      You don't want to make it too cheap for players to act behind you to see a flop. If you bet too high you might not get enough callers. But this is of course only a general rule. On higher limits like 100NL and above you should adapt to the tightness of the table, but on lower limits 4+1bb per limper should be fine.

      If you apply the concept of steals and resteals in your play you might open raise to 3bb from the BU/CO, but only if nobody has entered the pot yet, if there are limpers/posters make it 4+1bb again.

      Is there a specific reason you think 4+1bb isn't right?
      Do you mean we never steal from EP and MP? It is easy to fold 3bb if we get reraised.
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by JHTAN
      Originally posted by MeanGreen
      You don't want to make it too cheap for players to act behind you to see a flop. If you bet too high you might not get enough callers. But this is of course only a general rule. On higher limits like 100NL and above you should adapt to the tightness of the table, but on lower limits 4+1bb per limper should be fine.

      If you apply the concept of steals and resteals in your play you might open raise to 3bb from the BU/CO, but only if nobody has entered the pot yet, if there are limpers/posters make it 4+1bb again.

      Is there a specific reason you think 4+1bb isn't right?
      Do you mean we never steal from EP and MP? It is easy to fold 3bb if we get reraised.
      A steal is taking the money from the blinds with a low value hand. If you steal play those hands from EP/MP you have chances to get called by MP/LP with a better hand and then have to play your marginal/mediocre hand OOP which make it even more difficult. So to answer your question no you do not steal in EP/MP in FR games. The only exception maybe for more advanced players is MP3 occasionnaly.