If you ever play 86 suited Late position..

    • Armovic
      Armovic
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2007 Posts: 13
      Ok quick background.. After some sound advice on this forum.. I went on a tear and moneyed 11 of 13 sng's I played. Playing Tight early, dropping marginal hands out of my play, and stepping up from 2$ to 6$ to 11$ and for my first time to 22$... good stuff ( I move up when I hit first and restart from 2$ when I don't money.)

      Q: Would you guys play this hand early on in a tourney?
      8 :diamond: 6 :diamond:

      I usually fold 80% of the time call another 20%.

      9 players.
      MP2 limps 30, Mp3 limps 30, (me) CO limp 30 with 8 :diamond: 6 :diamond: , button limps, SB limps, BB checks.

      6 players.

      flop
      9 :diamond: 5 :diamond: Q :diamond:

      SB checks BB raises pot size to 180, MP2 calls 180, MP3 calls 180.

      What do you do now?

      I want this pot now, or make any one drawing pay to draw.
      I was thinking to go all in right away, convincing myself if another guy has 2 diamonds well, I'll take that beating... for some reason I hesitate and just make a 700 raise (720 in the pot at this point)..
      fold-fold-fold-MP2 calls another 520, MP3 folds ..
      The A :diamond: ,K :diamond: , J :diamond: and T :diamond: that beat me have 6 outs (since I have 2 :diamond: cards and the 7 gives me the straight flush), assuming the two other guys who invested money in this flop didn't have a Diamond.

      A two pair chasing a full would have 6 outs and if they had the A,K,J orT :diamond: with a Q,9,5 offsuit, I could be facing something like an opponent with 10-12 outs (doing the rough calcs in my head at the time). So I feel I'm ahead of a caller here regardless (or drawing to a 1 outer :D ) and willing to gamble early to double up if I get called or go broke.

      Surprised at the call, but I have NO clue about the players, so I shouldn't be surprised...

      Turn: J :club:

      I like that card. He thinks for a good ten seconds... goes all in. I insta call.

      He folds over J :diamond: T :club: Fair enough. I'm ahead as I expected.
      Come oooon Nooooo :diamond: .. dooouble me up early!! woo hoo!!

      River: K :diamond:

      DOH!

      Time to bank the profits and work my way up again from the $2 tables.

      How would you guys play this hand? Would you fold it in the first place, turn more passive, etc.
  • 11 replies
    • Armovic
      Armovic
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2007 Posts: 13
      oh yea, in case it changes anyone's perspective. Its a Turbo SnG.. After watching the SnG vid on this site, I switched from normal games to turbos :)
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      yeah those suckouts... suck.

      i would play 86s early on in these donkaments LP just for implied odds with regard to flush value and straight value..

      the rest of the moves, i would do. i like the raise to 700 on the flop (and i'm assuming you're all starting with 1500 stacks here.

      unlucky to get rivered like that... he had outs but you were at a clear advantage. if you're using correct BRM (are you?!) these sorts of suckouts shouldn't REAALLY matter in the long-run (doesn't stop me from getting really pissed off about it though).

      also i wouldn't mix up buy-in levels so much. play will differ greatly from level to level, especially 2$ -> 22$ lol
    • Armovic
      Armovic
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2007 Posts: 13
      Chenny you were right to assume it was 1500 as I was playing on Full Tilt.

      my version of BRM:
      I have $150 Bankrolled for 2.25 $ sngs. When profits hit $15 I move to a $6 SnG. If I come first I move up to to $11, second place I replay the $6 SnG, 3rd or lower I move back down to $2 and move up again with a first or second place win (assuming Im still +15$).

      When I hit the 11$ SnG. the same rules apply except that if I come first I bank the cash and start back from the $2 zone.

      This time around I thought I'd take a shot for the $22 game. I was on a nice streak of 4 firsts in my last 5 games so I thought I'd ride it out :)

      took all but 23 seconds for it to come to a screetching end. When I get my bankroll high enough I'll probably adjust this system. I find this system keeps me motivated and is a lot more fun then sticking to one limit and grinding away on 1 level.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      ... it also means that theoretically you cannot really reach those higher limits...
    • Unam
      Unam
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 17.08.2006 Posts: 8,999
      Luck is independend, hence you are not runnign out on the higher limits, but you are simply playing above your role, added to this you are limiting your limit advancement. If you want to make these shots, you could as well play MTTs.
      OK but it is your own BRM and so it is your problem.

      But 86s sucks the hand is not worth limping, I would complete the SB with it, when the odds are good, if they are not just fold the hand preflop.
    • k1ngenx
      k1ngenx
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2007 Posts: 40
      just really make me smile from ear to ear when guys write things like this:
      "my version of BRM"

      sorry if any ofended lol
    • curnow
      curnow
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2007 Posts: 1,039
      one of the British pro's/presenters Mark Banin talked about playing 78o around the button by raising with it and representing a hand on the flop

      think this is fine for later in sng or MTT where you want to steal blinds but not in early stages of a sng
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      brm is for:

      1. playing the limit you are trained for, instead of playing a limit you are not ready for. The higher the buy in, the more experience you need.
      2. minimizing risk and maximizing profit.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Originally posted by curnow
      one of the British pro's/presenters Mark Banin talked about playing 78o around the button by raising with it and representing a hand on the flop

      think this is fine for later in sng or MTT where you want to steal blinds but not in early stages of a sng
      representing hands doesn't work against idiots.
    • bl1nd
      bl1nd
      Global
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 30
      Originally posted by Armovic
      Chenny you were right to assume it was 1500 as I was playing on Full Tilt.

      my version of BRM:
      I have $150 Bankrolled for 2.25 $ sngs. When profits hit $15 I move to a $6 SnG. If I come first I move up to to $11, second place I replay the $6 SnG, 3rd or lower I move back down to $2 and move up again with a first or second place win (assuming Im still +15$).

      When I hit the 11$ SnG. the same rules apply except that if I come first I bank the cash and start back from the $2 zone.

      This time around I thought I'd take a shot for the $22 game. I was on a nice streak of 4 firsts in my last 5 games so I thought I'd ride it out :)

      took all but 23 seconds for it to come to a screetching end. When I get my bankroll high enough I'll probably adjust this system. I find this system keeps me motivated and is a lot more fun then sticking to one limit and grinding away on 1 level.
      I think thats a HORRIBLE bankroll management if u can call it that

      If ur doing so good in 2$ just keep playing them until you have at LEAST 50 Buy ins for 6$
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Originally posted by helemaalnicks
      2. minimizing risk and maximizing profit.
      to explain maximising profit, good BRM obviously doesn't maximise profit in the short-term, but if you exercise poor BRM you WILL go broke in the long-term.