[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH QJ against steal

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      SB ($14.37)
      Hero ($11.46)
      UTG ($2.08)
      CO ($16.66)
      BTN ($10.67)

      Dealt to Hero J:heart: Q:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, SB calls $0.60

      FLOP ($1.80) 8:heart: J:spade: K:spade:

      SB checks, Hero bets $1.10, SB folds

      Hero shows J:heart: Q:diamond:

      Hero wins $1.71

      18/13/2.3 steal from SB 35, fold to resteal 33, fold to CBet 59

      I put in equilatos his 35 % steal range and I get 44% equty with QJ against him.

      I put 0.8$ to win 1.2$ pot so I need to win 66% of the time, but I am ahead only 44%. So this is unprofitable.

      But yet we have fold equity after the flop.

      But I am still not sure how to make those calculations with blind defence when I can resteal profitably and when I cannot.
  • 6 replies
    • DoigteurFou
      DoigteurFou
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.08.2007 Posts: 1,529
      Don't show your hand! Never! They have to PAY if they want information about your range!

      As for the stats, I can't help, I'm far from beeing an expert about stealing.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      I don't show the hand, just hem converter says that I show
    • StaticMoth
      StaticMoth
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2009 Posts: 2,642
      Originally posted by DoigteurFou
      Don't show your hand! Never! They have to PAY if they want information about your range!
      :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:


      As for the hand:

      No need to 3bet a broadway/connector hand there - that way you don't isolate yourself against better hands that have you dominated and you certainly don't want to play a big pot with this - if you get action, you'll be fucked more often than not when you hit your hand.

      So you want to just call this and play it post flop in position.

      So to summarize the point here = you want to 3bet your strong hands for value and your weak crap as a re-steal, all the rest medium hands just call and take it from there.
    • Bierbaer
      Bierbaer
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2005 Posts: 7,989
      Originally posted by StaticMoth

      No need to 3bet a broadway/connector hand there - that way you don't isolate yourself against better hands that have you dominated and you certainly don't want to play a big pot with this - if you get action, you'll be fucked more often than not when you hit your hand.

      So you want to just call this and play it post flop in position.

      So to summarize the point here = you want to 3bet your strong hands for value and your weak crap as a re-steal, all the rest medium hands just call and take it from there.
      Well that is only partly true. If he calls 80% of his openingrange we might be able to 3bet QJo for thin value here.

      However, I agree that in general you should rather call this hand in position vs the SB because you can play so well postflop.
      Rather 3bet something like K5s (unless the opponent calls a lot vs 3bets, in this case I'd definitely prefer 3betting hands like KJ+ instead of bluffs like K5s).

      As played on the flop I'd cbet as well. There are some arguments for checking back, but imo the hand is a lot easier to play when we bet ourselves as in this case he's in the guessing game.

      Btw I don't understand this:
      "I put 0.8$ to win 1.2$ pot so I need to win 66% of the time, but I am ahead only 44%. So this is unprofitable"
      We risk $1.1 to win a total pot of $1.1+$1.8 = $2.9, so we need 1.1/2.9=0.38 = 38% foldequity to win.
      If we're called we still have some potequity.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      Btw I don't understand this: "I put 0.8$ to win 1.2$ pot so I need to win 66% of the time, but I am ahead only 44%. So this is unprofitable"


      I was talking about preflop, not about flop. I raise to 0.9, so it means I invest 0.8 and if he folds preflop I win 1.2$ pot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Btw I don't understand this: "I put 0.8$ to win 1.2$ pot so I need to win 66% of the time, but I am ahead only 44%. So this is unprofitable"


      I was talking about preflop, not about flop. I raise to 0.9, so it means I invest 0.8 and if he folds preflop I win 1.2$ pot.
      First of all, I would rather recommend you not to think about the calculations on micro stakes, I would rather advice you to learn the game. Calculations can be added on later game, where they become more important.

      But about the preflop calculation:

      Yes, you need like 66,67% equity there but that's not the calculation you need to do for it. Since there is also a lot of fold equity and other stuff involved and even if we put him into range here it doesn't say much to us.

      You rather should try to understand how often does he fold to your 3bets, how often does he steal, how often does he giveup on flop and etc, not that if it's profitable or not to raise. Of course it could be profitable for example his told to 3bet or fold to resteal % is like 100% and otherwise if we pick for example 50% then it's rather Call there since he will be anyways playing against us and it will be hard to make him fold postflop therefore we will never know where we stand and he could easily kick us out the pot. Also take into consideration how well do you play postflop against him, do you think you can make him fold in specific boards like paired ones, or A board or whatsoever, what's his 3bet calling range and etc not about how profitable or what equity you get there.