coaching NL bss to 4 bet or not to 4bet that is the question!

    • grummeler
      grummeler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 2,237
      hello ladies and gentleman

      because of my serious illness this topic wasnt coached last month.
      i asked some listeners and a lot of them really wanted that topic to be in a coaching, so here we are.

      today will be a theory coaching only, because there is a lot of math included in this topic wether it is profitable or not against a specific opponent (or two) to 4bet or not.

      as usual, feel free to post your own hands into this thread.
  • 14 replies
    • grummeler
      grummeler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 2,237
      #1

      villian is very unknown with only 19 hands, but his 3bet value is 16,7 so far, his agf inf. and his contibet 100%
      4bet/call ? 4bet bluff ? or smoothly call and play in position ?

      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      UTG ($51.42)
      MP ($19.28)
      CO ($26.75)
      Hero (Button) ($25)
      SB ($25.87)
      BB ($47.50)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with A:spade: , Q:club:
      3 folds, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises $2.10, Hero calls $1.60

      Flop: ($4.80) 7:heart: , K:heart: , 5:club: (2 players)
      BB bets $2.35, Hero calls $2.35

      Turn: ($9.50) 7:club: (2 players)
      BB bets $5.35, Hero folds

      Total pot: $9.50
    • grummeler
      grummeler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 2,237
      #2

      this is a question wether to 5bet in blind battle or not

      villian: steal smallblind 59%, fold to 3bet 49%, 4bet 18%, AF 1.8, contibet 69%, 344 hands

      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      SB ($63.60)
      Hero (BB) ($53.60)
      UTG ($52)
      Button ($83.45)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A:heart: , A:diamond:
      2 folds, SB bets $1.25, Hero raises $4, SB raises $12, Hero raises $49.10 (All-In), 1 fold

      Total pot: $27
    • grummeler
      grummeler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 2,237
      #3

      QQ oop, allways difficult to deside wether to 4bet or not

      villian (3bet): vpip 20, PFR 18, 3bet 4,5% , AF 4.0, contibet 100%, 69hands

      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Button ($47.50)
      SB ($27.37)
      BB ($27.72)
      UTG ($25)
      Hero (MP) ($62.28)
      CO ($26.67)

      Preflop: Hero is MP with Q:heart: , Q:club:
      1 fold, Hero bets $1, 1 fold, Button raises $3.35, 1 fold, BB calls $3.10, Hero calls $2.35

      Flop: ($10.15) J:spade: , 5:spade: , 5:diamond: (3 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $9, 1 fold, Hero calls $9

      Turn: ($28.15) 6:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, Button bets $21, Hero raises $42, Button calls $14.15 (All-In)

      River: ($98.45) Q:spade: (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: $98.45
    • grummeler
      grummeler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 2,237
      #4

      villian: vpip 40 / pfr 28 / 3bet 7.5 / contiflop 47 / AF 4.3 / hands 218

      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      MP ($25)
      Button ($25)
      SB ($47.13)
      BB ($29.99)
      Hero (UTG) ($28.70)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with J:heart: , J:diamond:
      Hero bets $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB raises $4.65, 3 folds

      Total pot: $3.25
    • grummeler
      grummeler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 2,237
      #5

      villian: vpip 19 / pfr 15 / 3bet 5.8 / conti 63% / AF 6.0 / hands 608

      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Button ($4.63)
      Hero (SB) ($9.60)
      BB ($6.98)
      UTG ($5)
      MP ($5.11)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:diamond: , A:diamond:
      2 folds, Button calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.33, BB raises $1, 2 folds

      Total pot: $0.75
    • Terminatorchief
      Terminatorchief
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 3,310
      hello!

      Full Tilt - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      CO: $74.45
      BTN: $50.00
      SB: $73.00
      BB: $78.00
      UTG: $56.95
      Hero (MP): $50.00

      SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has 9Spade 9Heart

      fold, Hero raises to $1.75, CO raises to $6.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $14.00, CO calls $8.00

      Flop: ($28.75, 2 players) TDiamond ADiamond 4Heart
      Hero checks, CO bets $17.75, fold

      v. is playing: 31/23. 3bet: 9%
      v. has been 3betting me a lot. i wanted to 4bet broke here because i thing that v. could go broke with worse hands and because i want to to know that he shouldn´t 3bet me so much. would it be better to just fold? is a call ip possible?
    • Terminatorchief
      Terminatorchief
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 3,310
      Full Tilt - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      UTG: $56.00
      MP: $59.60
      CO: $50.00
      BTN: $50.00
      Hero (SB): $54.50
      BB: $51.50

      Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has JSpade ASpade

      fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.00, BB raises to $5.00, Hero calls $3.00

      Flop: ($10.00, 2 players) 6Heart AHeart 3Club
      Hero checks, BB bets $5.50, Hero raises to $17.50, fold

      v. is playing 21/19. 3bet. 9%
      what is the best preflop play here? playing oop is ugly but i can´t 4bet broke for value. so i would have to 4bet fold as a bluff. i think the hand is to strong for that. so is the call correct even if we have to play oop?
    • Terminatorchief
      Terminatorchief
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 3,310
      Full Tilt - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      UTG: $50.00
      Hero (CO): $92.75
      BTN: $65.90
      SB: $142.20
      BB: $129.45

      SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has 9Diamond 9Club

      fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.00, fold, fold, Hero calls $2.50

      Flop: ($8.75, 2 players) TDiamond 6Heart 3Heart
      Hero checks, BTN bets $7.25, Hero calls $7.25

      Turn: ($23.25, 2 players) 9Heart
      Hero checks, BTN bets $25.00, Hero raises to $81.50 and is all-in, fold

      hero is playing 78/54. 3bet: 39% on the first 50 händs, postlfop very aggressive
      against this maniac i would probably play 4bet broke for 100bb in these positions. but we are a little bit deeper. can i still 4bet broke here?
    • MickeyDD
      MickeyDD
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2009 Posts: 31
      villain's stats in SB are 23% VPIP, 22% PFR, with 3bet 10% over 800 hands.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      MP1:
      $9.88
      MP2:
      $24.30
      MP3:
      $22.30
      CO (Hero):
      $31.72
      BU:
      $24.50
      SB:
      $8.62
      BB:
      $25.36
      UTG2:
      $30.29


      Preflop: Hero is CO with A, K.
      3 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.00, BU folds, SB calls $0.90, BB raises to $4.50, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $11.00, SB folds, BB raises to $25.61, Hero calls $14.36.

      Flop: ($51.97) 3, 2, Q (2 players)


      Turn: ($51.97) 9 (2 players)


      River: ($51.97) 7 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $51.97.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows high card ace(A K).
      BB shows a pair of aces(A A).

      BB wins with a pair of aces(A A).
    • MickeyDD
      MickeyDD
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2009 Posts: 31
      only 31 hands with the villain. he is 16/6 with no 3bet.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      CO (Hero):
      $25.00
      BU:
      $24.15
      SB:
      $10.39
      BB:
      $51.40
      UTG2:
      $33.25
      MP1:
      $25.00
      MP2:
      $9.83
      MP3:
      $6.30


      Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K.
      UTG2 raises to $0.75, MP1 calls $0.75, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.75, Hero raises to $3.50, 3 folds, UTG2 raises to $33.25, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $5.55(All-In), Hero calls $21.50(All-In).

      Flop: ($65.65) 7, 4, 7 (3 players)


      Turn: ($65.65) J (3 players)


      River: ($65.65) 8 (3 players)


      Final Pot: $65.65.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, kings and sevens(K K).
      UTG2 shows two pairs, aces and sevens(A A).
      MP3 shows two pairs, sevens and fives(5 5).

      UTG2 wins with two pairs, aces and sevens(A A).
    • MickeyDD
      MickeyDD
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2009 Posts: 31
      villain's preflop stats 38/8/4 over 220 hands, with no 3bet in BU.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $10.00
      UTG2:
      $17.40
      MP1:
      $10.26
      MP2:
      $4.00
      MP3:
      $21.47
      CO (Hero):
      $10.00
      BU:
      $11.23
      SB:
      $11.60


      Preflop: Hero is CO with K, A.
      UTG2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.80, BU raises to $1.30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $10.00, BU calls $8.70.

      Flop: ($20.45) 9, 7, 3 (2 players)


      Turn: ($20.45) 6 (2 players)


      River: ($20.45) 6 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $20.45.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a pair of sixs(K A).
      BU shows two pairs, aces and sixs(A A).

      BU wins with two pairs, aces and sixs(A A).
    • MickeyDD
      MickeyDD
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2009 Posts: 31
      villain pre flop stats 45/26/8 over 140 hands

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $8.70
      UTG2:
      $3.50
      MP1:
      $10.00
      MP2:
      $9.77
      MP3 (Hero):
      $10.00
      CO:
      $15.81
      BU:
      $10.00
      SB:
      $8.25


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, Q.
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 3 folds, BB raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($1.25) 3, 3, K (2 players)
      BB bets $1.00, Hero folds, BB gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $1.25.
    • MickeyDD
      MickeyDD
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2009 Posts: 31
      villain is 43/10/9.2 preflop over 200 hands

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      CO:
      $10.00
      BU:
      $32.40
      SB:
      $10.49
      BB:
      $7.33
      UTG1 (Hero):
      $10.00
      UTG2:
      $1.43
      MP1:
      $10.73
      MP2:
      $10.00
      MP3:
      $10.00


      Preflop: Hero is UTG1 with A, Q.
      Hero raises to $0.30, 5 folds, BU raises to $0.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20.

      Flop: ($1.15) K, 2, 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10.

      Turn: ($1.35) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $0.60, Hero folds, BU gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $1.35.
    • MickeyDD
      MickeyDD
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2009 Posts: 31
      MP3 has 67/25/4 over 770 hands
      BB has 38/13/14 only 30 hands.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      UTG1:
      $9.85
      UTG2:
      $5.37
      MP1:
      $12.47
      MP2:
      $10.00
      MP3:
      $15.22
      CO:
      $10.13
      BU:
      $9.26
      SB (Hero):
      $10.08
      BB:
      $8.98


      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, J.
      4 folds, MP3 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BB calls $0.30, MP3 raises to $1.00, Hero calls $0.60, BB calls $0.60.

      Flop: ($3) 4, 5, 3 (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 bets $1.20, Hero folds, BB folds, MP3 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $3.