Understanding HEM EV graph

    • Royaltramp
      Royaltramp
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      Joined: 28.11.2010 Posts: 215
      Well I use PT but I sent my friend my hand history and he sent me back a graph from HEM to show me why he likes it better than PT, I noticed it shows the EV.

      In some places on the graph my winnings match up 100% with my EV, in other places my winnings are greater than my EV, and in other places they are lower.

      I'm guessing when it matches up that's best, when my winnings are above my EV that means I got lucky, and when they're below my EV I have room for improvement, right? Or not?

      Also I'm considering asking for HEM as a christmas present even though I already have PT, because my friend keeps telling me how much better it is - is it really better, and will having this EV graph help me?
  • 11 replies
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
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      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      when my winnings are above my EV that means I got lucky, and when they're below my EV I have room for improvement


      Yes, if you're above EV that means you got lucky, same applies if you're below EV, you just got unlucky.

      I would suggest you to download HEM trial version(15 days), so you can see yourself the differences between HEM and PT. And don't take EV line as something what can show you if you're good or bad. At least not on small sample size, because there will be too much luck involved.
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by Royaltramp
      he sent me back a graph from HEM to show me why he likes it better than PT, I noticed it shows the EV.
      PT also has EV graph.
    • Royaltramp
      Royaltramp
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      Joined: 28.11.2010 Posts: 215
      Originally posted by jonnyjm
      Originally posted by Royaltramp
      he sent me back a graph from HEM to show me why he likes it better than PT, I noticed it shows the EV.
      PT also has EV graph.
      I can't see EV in my graph in PT, how do you get it to show? I'm new to PT so maybe I'm doing something wrong.

      I've downloaded the HEM trial now and I'll give it a shot, do you know if "LeakBuster" is included in the trial? My friend suggested I get that as he says it's helped him improve his game massively by showing him his weaknesses.
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
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      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      Oh, lol. Forgot to ask if you're talking about cash games or sngs?

      There should be a button "Adjusted $EV winnings" or something like that
    • Royaltramp
      Royaltramp
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      Joined: 28.11.2010 Posts: 215
      Originally posted by Bigniux
      Oh, lol. Forgot to ask if you're talking about cash games or sngs?

      There should be a button "Adjusted $EV winnings" or something like that
      Cash games. I don't see one. Though my friend has played around with the settings since I was getting lots of errors originally, is it possible he's done something that's hidden that?
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by Royaltramp
      Originally posted by jonnyjm
      Originally posted by Royaltramp
      he sent me back a graph from HEM to show me why he likes it better than PT, I noticed it shows the EV.
      PT also has EV graph.
      I can't see EV in my graph in PT, how do you get it to show? I'm new to PT so maybe I'm doing something wrong.

      I've downloaded the HEM trial now and I'll give it a shot, do you know if "LeakBuster" is included in the trial? My friend suggested I get that as he says it's helped him improve his game massively by showing him his weaknesses.
      Go to the "Graphs" tab. To the left of the graph there will be some tick boxes. One of them is called "Display All-in EV", make sure the box is ticked and EV will show as a yellow/gold line.
    • Royaltramp
      Royaltramp
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      Joined: 28.11.2010 Posts: 215
      Alright thanks, but anyway, here are the two graphs he sent me from my stats:

      No.1 = Money won and EV from all hands


      No.2 = Money won and EV from all hands except pocket pairs


      I'm not sure why he sent these two in particular, and he isn't available for me to speak to at the moment - both graphs look bad to me, but especially the second one - does this mean I'm losing money from all hands except pocket pairs?

      Do either of these graphs give any info as to whether I'm having good or bad luck atm, or to whether I'm making many mistakes?
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
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      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      A few points i would like to comment on:

      #1 Graph 1 isn't that bad, just shows that you are more or less break even player over 5k hands (which is a very small sample).

      #2 You have to be cautious with All in EV. The rough idea about All in EV is to tell you how lucky or unlucky you are. (if you run below EV like on graph 1 you are unlucky). BUT and this is an important but, it doesnt tell the whole story. I won't go into too much details because there are many threads about it but I will just give you an example.

      You are a big favorite on the flop and turn so you value bet and your opponent hits one of his 2 outs on the river and both opponents bet what they have left. You lose the hand and your EV line follows your winnings graph where you have been unlucky.

      #3 Also be careful with All In EV with currencies. If you are playing in different currencies and have set up your main currency (so that PT3 convert all the currencies into the main one) the winning graph displays the "amount global" which is the amount won/lost in one currency but the All In EV doesn't. Which makes the All In EV even more useless

      #4 You expect to win money with all your pocket pairs. To see this you can filter the hand to only pocket pairs and you will probably see that the graph is straight up). Graph 2 doesn't say that you lose money with all hands but pocket pairs it shows that without pocket pairs you lose money (which makes sense since you are a BE player overall - again on small sample)
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
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      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      You are a big favorite on the flop and turn so you value bet and your opponent hits one of his 2 outs on the river and both opponents bet what they have left. You lose the hand and your EV line follows your winnings graph where you have been unlucky.
      All-in EV adds the average amount you'll win in the long run at the point you got it all-in.

      Let's say you have AA and your opp has KK. You both had 5$ stacks. On average you'll win 80%. So, from 10$ pot, you'll win 8$ on average. If you win once, you win whole pot, which means you won 2$ more than you'll win on average and this will put your winnings line 2$ over EV. If you lose, your EV line will still gain 8$, but your actual winnings will be -5$.

      Now let's assume that your opponent hits a set and you both get it all-in on turn. Assuming that the only way you can win is hitting an A on the river, you'll roughly have 5% possibility to win. Also, let's say that you both had 2$ behind on turn and your opponent bets 2$ all-in into you. The total pot is 10$ and as 5% favorite, you'll get 0,5$ from the pot on average, meaning that if you win, you got 9,5$ more than you will get on average(huge over EV) and if you lose, you'll be only 0,5$ under EV, cause you got 0$ from the pot while on average you get 0,5$.


      I hope that someone clarifies if this is 100% correct, but that's how i see it.
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
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      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      That's correct.

      My point was that it is not a true representation of the "luck" factor. But again there are many thread about All In EV out there.
    • Royaltramp
      Royaltramp
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      Joined: 28.11.2010 Posts: 215
      Alright, thanks for the information guys, one last question.

      Any idea why HEM and PT show different hand numbers? They both import from the same directories, so I don't know what could make it different.

      Here's a PT graph:


      And here's my HEM graph:


      Where'd the 280 hands go?