[NL20-NL50] AQ Spew; when to fold?

    • fastliketiger
      Joined: 02.12.2010 Posts: 15
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      BB (Hero):

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A.
      CO posts deadblind, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 folds, CO checks, BU raises to $1.00, SB folds, Hero raises to $3.75, 2 folds, BU calls $2.75.

      Flop: ($8.1) J, A, 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $5.00, BU raises to $13.00, Hero calls $8.00.

      Turn: ($34.1) 9 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $17.00, Hero calls $17.00.

      River: ($68.1) 5 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $46.31(All-In), Hero calls $20.64.

      Final Pot: $135.05.
      Results follow:

      BU shows a flush, ace high(T J).
      Hero shows a pair of aces(Q A).

      BU wins with a flush, ace high(T J).

      Just turned a 1,5k hand +$110 session into a $10 session in about 10 hands after tilting a 200+ BB pot deep when looking back I played it fucking terribly.

      At what point do I get away from this hand? Basically, me and BU have some history, I got like 4k hands on him and he isolates a limper, i re-isolate him and the dynamic is us constantly playing at one and other. Against another opponent, I may even fold turn but against this guy (who has stacked off in SB/BB wars with myself with 56o before; hence the dynamic) I couldnt get away from it.

      My initial thinking is I should of just reraise shoved on the flop. He is never folding on that board obviously; either that or C/F the turn; but the line is so fucking weak. I am just kicking myself over and over thinking about the hand and thinking against an unknown I would of saved myself money. I really should avoid playing 200BB pots with such mediocre holdings.

      Any thoughts on WHEN I should of got away from this? Im thinking c/f turn or reraise AI on flop. My reason for calling turn was obv to bink a diamond, but either way im comitted with TPTK getting like 5:1 on river after my call -_- Either way im going broke, if I got it in on the flop and he hit I wouldnt feel like such a donk though.

  • 2 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      If you have really table dynamics going then you can just avoid that spot and call pf. Fishes would very likely also call and although you are oop, you can lead on Axx, Qxx boards and stack fish. Villain doesn´t mess you in 3-way pots, so you should have there easy time b/f or if he really raises your every lead then c/c just him down.
      200bb deep oop I think I would likely c/f turn although it is very hard to do. He really needs to raise flop smt like KdQh that you can c/c turn and then c/c him down and mostly I think he would take passive lines on Axx boards and just would call your c-bet.
      So his range are AJ, sometimes A6s, 66 and flushes that got there and against that your AQd doesn´t really play good. Although you may seem that he is bluffing he mostly has there nuts rather than stone call bluff. Players just don´t have guts to bluff 200bb pots where very likely you´re against tp hand that may not fold.
    • Tim64
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Seriously, mate, dont post results :) I'm trying to think how to give advice but knowing villains hand makes it really difficult...

      On the flop I think you can cbet more like $7 as with deep stacks we have more $ to get in. It also looks stronger so villain is less likely to mess with us.

      Ok, well, if we get it in on the flop for 200bb we arent going to be happy. (JJ/AK/66 are all possible hands that villain cant ship pre for 200bb, but that he might on this board). And we should assume that villain wont want to get it in without the near nuts also - whatever the dynamic - so... I think we can either: 3b the flop and fold to a shove (on the basis that the range villain shoves with is one that crushes us) or just call as you did.

      Since it sucks to 3b/fold tpgk here, I prefer the call, as played. Turn is not a good card, but I also ch/c. On the river I think we can get away. Villain can easily check/b AJ/AK (since we could have a flush ourselves, given our line), but he chooses to shove. We are committed so this looks like the nuts and villain shouldnt be expecting us to fold anything we called on the turn so actually I prefer the fold.

      Again, this sucks. So, if you think villain will shove the river with his whole range then calling turn and folding river is no good. However, if we assume that betting turn + river = nuts line then folding turn already is better. In practice this is hard and takes a lot of discipline.

      Given the history, calling down cant be the worst thing in the world, I just think we will have clearer spots. If the turn blanks things are much easier for us.