[NL2-NL10] FR NL25 - Bottom two pair VS all-in on river

    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      A difficult river decision. What you guys think?

      No Limit Hold'em
      Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
      Stacks
      Hero: $24.80
      BB: $50.17

      Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with 6 :diamond: 4 :diamond:
      1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB checks.

      Flop: 7 :spade: 4 :club: 6 :club: ($1, 4 players)
      Hero bets $0.80, BB calls, 2 folds.

      Turn: T :spade: ($2.60, 2 players)
      Hero bets $1.70, BB calls.

      River: K :heart: ($6, 2 players)
      Hero bets $3, BB raises $47.42 and is all-in, Hero calls and is all-in.

      From the beginning of the hand, I had put him on a 7, club draw, or a 5. On the river, if he had a busted the draw he wouldn't call any raise, but if he had a seven he might call a reasonable raise, so I chose to bet half the pot.
      And then came the difficult decision, he pushed all-in.
      The villain is a passive player.
      He could have slowplayed a straight from the flop or made it on the turn, but it's very unlikely. Why the hell would he move all-in here if he had the straight?
      So what I thought was he probably has a busted draw, and think I'm weak because of the small raise on the river, and he's now trying to buy the pot.
      I just took a deep breath and called.
  • 8 replies
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      *Double post*
      Sorry
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      He might've been on a busted flush or straight draw. Either that, or a higher double pair. I don't believe he has a set ... if he had something of value, it was probably K7 (of clubs).

      I wouldn't be sure either ... I guess I would have folded. Bottom two pair I'd play the same as TPTK, and I don't know whether I'd risk my entire stack on it. If I seen him make dumb moves before, I might call, if he'd been decent so far, I probably wouldn't have taken the risk.
      Without reads ... rather not. I'd prefer to wait and watch him play other people and then see what kind of player he is and what his overbets actually mean. From my experience, there are two kind of people, those who push as a bluff, and those who push in the hopes to get a max value from their real good hand which's assumed to be a bluff sometimes. I've seen both with equal frequency, so I'd probably fold until I know which kind of overbetter he is.
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      I don't see many people bluff shoving the river - I'd muck the hand. However, I'd play check/call river in this spot: if he's on a busted draw, we want him to bluff...
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865

      Why the hell would he move all-in here if he had the straight?


      Could it be because some players give insufficient credit to overbet shoves and get curious? :D

      Without any real read beyond the fact that he's passive then I'd fold this. You've bet into 4 players on the flop followed up with leading on the turn and river. It looks like you have a hand here. There are some busted draws but there are quite a lot of hands that beat you as well.

      I hope you took down the pot.
    • Zeffke
      Zeffke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.04.2007 Posts: 1,123
      I think you're beat here so fold the river. I think he has something like 98 and took a risk to slowplay the turn here...
    • rubysilesia
      rubysilesia
      Silver
      Joined: 03.07.2007 Posts: 351
      I would bet more on the flop, more on the turn and fold to AI on the river.
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Originally posted by Nunki
      I hope you took down the pot.
      I did take it down, the guy had 73.
      I realize it was risky and was not getting good odds to call, that's why I posted, wanted to know your opinions.

      Originally posted by Nunki
      Could it be because some players give insufficient credit to overbet shoves and get curious? :D

      Without any real read beyond the fact that he's passive then I'd fold this. You've bet into 4 players on the flop followed up with leading on the turn and river. It looks like you have a hand here. There are some busted draws but there are quite a lot of hands that beat you as well.
      Maybe.......... lol

      The problem is that I think I didn't bet too much, and I bet less on the turn, and even less on the river. Meaning I could be weak.

      And I don't know about other poker rooms, but on Bodog, I hardly ever see a player pushing with a strong hand, they usually just want to get paid, and bet small. That's why I didn't believe he had a straight. I wasn't comfortable with that K... for some reason I thought... "K7?" but well, that's only one hand.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Originally posted by Nunki

      Why the hell would he move all-in here if he had the straight?


      Could it be because some players give insufficient credit to overbet shoves and get curious? :D
      I guess you're right here.
      I tried this out myself when I had a hand when I knew I probably couldn't get any money out of if played regularly, so I tried overbetting and seeing whether the fish would bite (thinking I have a T maybe). Might be EV+ to try this again.

      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)
      MP3:
      $62.40
      CO:
      $11.75
      Hero:
      $24.90
      BB:
      $17.70
      BU:
      $22.97
      SB:
      $24.75

      0.10/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A:club: , T:heart:
      Hero raises to $1.00, MP3 folds, CO calls $1.00, 3 folds.

      Flop: ($2.35) T:diamond: , A:spade: , A:heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25.

      Turn: ($4.85) 2:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks.

      River: ($4.85) K:heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $10.75, CO raises to $9.50 (All-In).

      Final Pot: $25.10

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      CO shows [ Js, Jc ] two pairs, Aces and Jacks
      Hero shows [ Ac, Th ] a full house, Aces full of Tens
      Hero wins $1.25 USD with a full house, Aces full of Tens.
      Hero wins $22.66 USD with a full house, Aces full of Tens.