[NL2-NL10] The dreaded JJ again...

    • Edukator99
      Edukator99
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 240
      Villain is unknown.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $2.00
      UTG1:
      $3.15
      UTG2:
      $3.49
      MP1:
      $1.35
      MP2:
      $2.60
      MP3 (Hero):
      $2.00
      CO:
      $1.88
      BU:
      $2.00
      SB:
      $2.61


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J, J.
      4 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, SB calls $0.07, BB folds.

      Flop: ($0.18) 7, 4, 2 (2 players)
      SB bets $0.18, Hero calls $0.18.

      Turn: ($0.54) 2 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks.

      River: ($0.54) T (2 players)
      SB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50.

      Final Pot: $1.54.

      I thought the bet on the flop might be a bluff as he had just called in, then he checked the turn which made me think I had been right. With no over card on the river I decided to call.
  • 6 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Edukator99,

      Flop: Since he is betting that big into the pot then going for pot control line is likely good idea.
      Turn: But as he decides to Check here I'd rather prefer to bet myself against any kind of draw or maybe even sometimes overcards protection.

      As played
      River: As we induce bluff or bet weaker hands him again then you can likely Call here but if for example he would have taken such line if we bet the turn again then we had a fold here, since he would often take such a line with a lot stronger hands. (Betting pot)

      Best regards.
    • Oly0909
      Oly0909
      Silver
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 843
      Hello veriz,

      1. I have to correct you here. It's not smallish bet on flop it's pot size bet.

      2. Since OESD is possible and FDs are possible, I would prefer to raise on flop to ~$0,55 and if he shoves I think I have enough equity to call.



      Board: 7:diamond: 2:diamond: 4:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    46.36%  46.36%   0.00% { JsJc }
      MP3    53.64%  53.64%   0.00% { TT, 77, 44, 22, 65s, AdQd, KdQd, AdJd, KdJd, AdTd, KdTd }


      I could be wrong about his SB coldcalling and bet/shoving range though, I'm just starting to think about ranges :f_biggrin:
      Can you tell me something about this line, like is it very wrong and why?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Oly0909
      Hello veriz,

      1. I have to correct you here. It's not smallish bet on flop it's pot size bet.

      2. Since OESD is possible and FDs are possible, I would prefer to raise on flop to ~$0,55 and if he shoves I think I have enough equity to call.



      Board: 7:diamond: 2:diamond: 4:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    46.36%  46.36%   0.00% { JsJc }
      MP3    53.64%  53.64%   0.00% { TT, 77, 44, 22, 65s, AdQd, KdQd, AdJd, KdJd, AdTd, KdTd }


      I could be wrong about his SB coldcalling and bet/shoving range though, I'm just starting to think about ranges :f_biggrin:
      Can you tell me something about this line, like is it very wrong and why?
      The problem with here is that we don't really know the opponent, if we for example knew the opponent then we could easily raise him on flop but as long he is representing a very strong hand with his pot size bet and I guess you understood what I wanted to say on flop, against small bet we would not take pot control line, rather than just raise. :)

      Also I don't really expect them to bet into us with just some kind of draw with pot size, more often their Call preflop and betting pot size on flop could easily mean a strong hand. Of course if the opponent would be known as aggressor and pretty loose then I wouldn't even think here, I would just raise him on flop and get it in.

      Plus we can't really put an unknown into hand range, since we don't really know with what he is Calling preflop, no stats, no range.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Also would like to add that the problem with raising is that we have to go broke with our hand if we decided to raise but for example if we Call the flop and then take initiative on turn and bet ourself and when he decides to Check/Raise us, we still able to fold the hand. But with raising we wont, only protecting against draws but with what he often wouldn't bet that big into us, more often such players on NL2 bet smallish with draws.
    • Edukator99
      Edukator99
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 240
      What program did you use to calculate equity?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Edukator99
      What program did you use to calculate equity?
      We have our own PokerStrategy program for that:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/software/

      There is EquiLab and also Equilator.