[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH - ATo

    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      BB:
      $6,33
      Hero:
      $16,99

      0,05/0,1 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.96 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A:spade: , T:heart:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0,30, SB folds, BB calls $0,20.

      Flop: ($0,65) A:heart: , J:spade: , 7:spade: (2 players)
      BB bets $0,65, Hero calls $0,65.

      Turn: ($1,95) 9:spade: (2 players)
      BB bets $1,5, Hero calls $1,50.

      River: ($4,95) 8:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets $1,9, Hero calls $1,90.

      Final Pot: $8,75

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows (As Th)
      BB shows a flush, queen high (Qs Ts)

      BB wins with a flush, queen high (Qs Ts)

      Seems like a fish, should I fold river or turn instead? Not many Ax range I can beat.
  • 3 replies
    • DoigteurFou
      DoigteurFou
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.08.2007 Posts: 1,528
      That's quite weird, you turn from the preflop aggressor to the passive pot-feeder. You just gave him initiative, not being able to know where you stand, but still putting money into the pot against an opponent that is clearly value-betting all three streets as if he were playing a calling station (and he did on this hand!)

      As played you have to check/fold river imo. You don't know where you stand against an obviously value-betting opponent, so you're most likely beaten here.

      Personally, when I raise to get into a pot, I want the initiative I bought preflop with my raise. The guy is donking MY flop while my hand did hit? I would just reraise him and ask him: "okay, do you want to fight for that pot?", checking the turn behind and check/call the river for pot control (our hand is not that big here). Of course, folding to a flop reraise from the donker, or to a turn bet because I would clearly know that I'm way behind his hand.

      Furthermore, such a line will protect you from draws (two spades, J and 7 in the playing zone... mmmh, my TP needs protection). Also, this is a blind defense hand, but you raised a real hand. Which means that your opponent must have a looser range of calling, and will try to buy initiative and cards on the board to defend correctly. He could clearly donk with a J, or even with 77-TT (assuming he would not 3bet them), but he could clearly be valuebeting his AT/A9 here, because A2s+ is likely to be in your steal range (and even if it's not, that's what he may think)

      I think the results of the hand just punishes you for your passivity.
    • funktor
      funktor
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2008 Posts: 922
      Originally posted by DoigteurFou
      Personally, when I raise to get into a pot, I want the initiative I bought preflop with my raise. The guy is donking MY flop while my hand did hit? I would just reraise him and ask him: "okay, do you want to fight for that pot?", checking the turn behind and check/call the river for pot control (our hand is not that big here). Of course, folding to a flop reraise from the donker, or to a turn bet because I would clearly know that I'm way behind his hand.
      What are you going to do if he shoves over your raise?

      His donking range might be some bluffs (he folds that to your raise), many combo draws, some 2 pairs, ocassionally sets. To his shoving range you are big dog and loose all value you can get from him by his bluffs, you are in position, there is no need to raise it, in addition we have ourselves backdoor FD and backdoor str8 draw.

      Funktor
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello ragney,

      Flop: Since he is betting pot into us I don't really like the raise here at all, we just don't know where we stand if we raise him and he decides to shove. We had likely even to fold the hand. Therefore going for pot control is totally fine.
      Turn: As we get here our backdoor FD+GS, I'd likely also continue and reevaluate river.
      River: Since he may pick such a line also with just 2pair type of hands, sets or maybe also a straight with Tx type of hand, I'd also likely Call here. Also take a not that he picked such a line with FD+GS on flop(pot size bet).

      Best regards.