Worst VIP-scheme in the history of mankind or am I missing something?

    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      Hi, I downloaded the 888 software and at the first glance the tables look really soft.

      Now, the VIP-scheme. As I understand, by playing my usual game (4-tabling NL10 SH) I would reach the Silver level and get rewards equivalent of (whopping) 4% rakeback!

      That is - 2 status points for every dollar of rake paid and 2 reward points for every status point - 4 reward points for every dollar of rake paid. Cashback is 1 dollar for 100 reward points, so for 100 dollars rake paid I'd get 4 dollars back.

      That doesn't sound viable. I'm sure I've made a mistake in my calculations, but I don't know where. What am I missing, can anybody help?

      P.S. I've searced for rake races but there seems to be none.
  • 22 replies
    • Bidillu
      Bidillu
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.04.2010 Posts: 26
      I agree, and I don't think you're missing much.

      It's damn difficult to raise points and clearing a bonus here must be one of the most difficult sites I've seen for a micro-stake player like me.

      Otherwise, I like the software. I wish there were more traffic on games other than NLHE.

      I do like this site, but I agree that getting points is too difficult.
    • LockONNN
      LockONNN
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2010 Posts: 3,437
      The worst reward system I ever seen too. I played NL2 up to NL10 SH and finally I'm able to cashout :f_biggrin: . 100K hands played in these stakes and only near 800 reward points :s_mad: . Nearly 30K hands of NL10 SH in december and did not made better than 72% for reaching silver status.
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Possibly, although some (non-partner) sites don't actually offer anything.

      Don't forget that it's not just the headline figures that count. 888Poker also provide a lot of added value in their tournaments (added prizes, overlay in guarantees etc) and various other promotions.

      You also need to consider the traffic volume, expertise (or otherwise) of players, user friendliness of software, % rake or tournament fee taken (which is less than a lot of other platforms) etc.

      I personally think that the poor standard of play by a large majority of the fish on 888 (possibly from the sports book) can sometimes be much more +ve return to a half decent player than rakeback/vip schemes alone.

      At the end of the day, it's all about what your net "take home pay" amount is. Profit/Loss+Added value+Return (RB, VIP or otherwise), the biggest influence on that will always be Profit/Loss.

      I've actually been playing on 888 increasingly over the last few weeks, favouring it to Full Tilt despite all the RB, VIP, Ironman, Bonuses etc I get there, although I do ofc still play across many different platforms.

      Good luck & best regards,


      Bart
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      Originally posted by EagleStar88
      Possibly, although some (non-partner) sites don't actually offer anything.

      Don't forget that it's not just the headline figures that count. 888Poker also provide a lot of added value in their tournaments (added prizes, overlay in guarantees etc) and various other promotions.

      You also need to consider the traffic volume, expertise (or otherwise) of players, user friendliness of software, % rake or tournament fee taken (which is less than a lot of other platforms) etc.

      I personally think that the poor standard of play by a large majority of the fish on 888 (possibly from the sports book) can sometimes be much more +ve return to a half decent player than rakeback/vip schemes alone.

      At the end of the day, it's all about what your net "take home pay" amount is. Profit/Loss+Added value+Return (RB, VIP or otherwise), the biggest influence on that will always be Profit/Loss.

      I've actually been playing on 888 increasingly over the last few weeks, favouring it to Full Tilt despite all the RB, VIP, Ironman, Bonuses etc I get there, although I do ofc still play across many different platforms.

      Good luck & best regards,


      Bart
      this is something that so many players up to nl200 fail to think about. too many players get caught up in how big the VIP scheme is.

      remember that most often, the better the VIP scheme/rakeback is, the more breakeven and slightly winning players will be attracted to it. so the games are reg infested at a site with an amazing vip program (hi stars!!!) as opposed to an awful vip system like 888, where the 'recreational players' don't necessarily care about the vip program with bonuses they can't achieve anyway.
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      Yeah I've given it a thought in the past. There's no combination of good vip-scheme, good software and fishy environment. I guess I'll give 888 a try someday and see how it affects my winrate :)
    • nnssoonn
      nnssoonn
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.02.2010 Posts: 299
      I hate 888poker so bad... I'm glad to hear more people agree
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      Originally posted by nnssoonn
      I hate 888poker so bad... I'm glad to hear more people agree
      try reading the thread more carefully. the vip system is horrible - everything else about the site is pretty good imo.

      fwiw i prefer 888 software over FTP, stars, etc.
    • thescorpe
      thescorpe
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 2
      888 is better for small to medium size bankroll.plus smaller fields means easyier to get into money.and no rush crap
    • RedHeater
      RedHeater
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2010 Posts: 223
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Hi, I downloaded the 888 software and at the first glance the tables look really soft.

      Now, the VIP-scheme. As I understand, by playing my usual game (4-tabling NL10 SH) I would reach the Silver level and get rewards equivalent of (whopping) 4% rakeback!

      That is - 2 status points for every dollar of rake paid and 2 reward points for every status point - 4 reward points for every dollar of rake paid. Cashback is 1 dollar for 100 reward points, so for 100 dollars rake paid I'd get 4 dollars back.

      That doesn't sound viable. I'm sure I've made a mistake in my calculations, but I don't know where. What am I missing, can anybody help?

      P.S. I've searced for rake races but there seems to be none.
      I would just point out that the value of a site with 4% rakeback would depend upon the size of the rake in the first place. If they raked much less than other sites, they could still be a better deal than a site with high rake and low rakeback. I don't know what the rake is like on 888, it would be interesting to know.
    • pogodon
      pogodon
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,213
      Originally posted by nnssoonn
      I hate 888poker so bad... I'm glad to hear more people agree
      i love 888 i think its great software but i play omaha and there is fack alll traffic next to none basicaly for plo but if 888 had more peoplep plaaying i would probaly pick it over the other sites
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      How many dollars do you have to rake to clear the first deposit bonus (I play sng's) and how much time do you have to clear that bonus?
    • HannesZ
      HannesZ
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 16,315
      Hi viewer88,

      In order to clear the whole bonus you will need to accumulate 8880 points. This is equivalent to $4440 rake.

      You have 90 days time to clear the bonus.

      If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

      Best regards,
      Hannes
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Hi, I downloaded the 888 software and at the first glance the tables look really soft.

      Now, the VIP-scheme. As I understand, by playing my usual game (4-tabling NL10 SH) I would reach the Silver level and get rewards equivalent of (whopping) 4% rakeback!

      That is - 2 status points for every dollar of rake paid and 2 reward points for every status point - 4 reward points for every dollar of rake paid. Cashback is 1 dollar for 100 reward points, so for 100 dollars rake paid I'd get 4 dollars back.

      That doesn't sound viable. I'm sure I've made a mistake in my calculations, but I don't know where. What am I missing, can anybody help?

      P.S. I've searced for rake races but there seems to be none.
      But is it contribution based rake?

      If everyone at the table gets the 2 status points per dollar raked then at a 10 handed table it's actually 40% rakeback. However if it is just contribution based then yes it's 4% :s_cool:
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by HannesZ
      Hi viewer88,

      In order to clear the whole bonus you will need to accumulate 8880 points. This is equivalent to $4440 rake.

      You have 90 days time to clear the bonus.

      If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

      Best regards,
      Hannes
      Thanks a lot for the info

      and for the record that is just a sick bad bonus!
    • mcdkace
      mcdkace
      Gold
      Joined: 08.08.2007 Posts: 136
      Originally posted by RedHeater
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Hi, I downloaded the 888 software and at the first glance the tables look really soft.

      Now, the VIP-scheme. As I understand, by playing my usual game (4-tabling NL10 SH) I would reach the Silver level and get rewards equivalent of (whopping) 4% rakeback!

      That is - 2 status points for every dollar of rake paid and 2 reward points for every status point - 4 reward points for every dollar of rake paid. Cashback is 1 dollar for 100 reward points, so for 100 dollars rake paid I'd get 4 dollars back.

      That doesn't sound viable. I'm sure I've made a mistake in my calculations, but I don't know where. What am I missing, can anybody help?

      P.S. I've searced for rake races but there seems to be none.
      I would just point out that the value of a site with 4% rakeback would depend upon the size of the rake in the first place. If they raked much less than other sites, they could still be a better deal than a site with high rake and low rakeback. I don't know what the rake is like on 888, it would be interesting to know.
      I read at the german forum the rake in cash games is capped at $4 and not at $3, which is immense high!
    • HannesZ
      HannesZ
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 16,315
      The rake structure is available here:
      http://www.888poker.com/how-to-play/limits-and-rake.htm

      Depending on the limit and amount of players it can be $4.
    • DocBrown112
      DocBrown112
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 57
      I would just point out that the value of a site with 4% rakeback would depend upon the size of the rake in the first place. If they raked much less than other sites, they could still be a better deal than a site with high rake and low rakeback. I don't know what the rake is like on 888, it would be interesting to know.


      The rake rates of 888 are very low - in cash games they start at 5% and on some tables it is 1%, in tourneys they start around 10% and drop quite fast to around 5% on most tourneys. Compared to iPoker and Partypoker it is cheap and I can understand why they can't offer a substantial rakeback schema.

      I agree it is difficult, especially for micro level players, to gather enough points for the bonus and VIP cashout - but:

      this is something that so many players up to nl200 fail to think about. too many players get caught up in how big the VIP scheme is.

      remember that most often, the better the VIP scheme/rakeback is, the more breakeven and slightly winning players will be attracted to it. so the games are reg infested at a site with an amazing vip program (hi stars!!!) as opposed to an awful vip system like 888, where the 'recreational players' don't necessarily care about the vip program with bonuses they can't achieve anyway.


      This is a great point, which I hadn't considered to be honest, but I think it must be true. I play a lot of the 40 man 0,88$+0,08$ with a ROI above 30% and I was thinking to myself that I missed some rakeback, but come to think about it, I much rather beat a lot of fish than compete with a bunch of grinders like you see on Pokerstars 180 man 2$ :s_biggrin:

      So if you like the site, the competition and the software, take a look at your winnings and evaluate if that compensates the lacking in the VIP or rakeback department - I personally think it does.

      Best regards
      DocBrown112
    • darkod80
      darkod80
      Global
      Joined: 13.11.2008 Posts: 161
      so true :s_grin:
    • mamanani2
      mamanani2
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.11.2009 Posts: 1,013
      Originally posted by DocBrown112
      I would just point out that the value of a site with 4% rakeback would depend upon the size of the rake in the first place. If they raked much less than other sites, they could still be a better deal than a site with high rake and low rakeback. I don't know what the rake is like on 888, it would be interesting to know.


      The rake rates of 888 are very low - in cash games they start at 5% and on some tables it is 1%, in tourneys they start around 10% and drop quite fast to around 5% on most tourneys. Compared to iPoker and Partypoker it is cheap and I can understand why they can't offer a substantial rakeback schema.

      I agree it is difficult, especially for micro level players, to gather enough points for the bonus and VIP cashout - but:
      WTF? 1% Rake on some Cashgame Tables? 4 CG Players 888 means much more Rake thorugh the higher Rake Cap, than on other Pokersites. And the Rakeback sucks too. So the only Reason 4 playing 888 can be the Playerpool. Suport Promotions and Rake sucks on 888 if you play CG.
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