[NL2-NL10] QJo NL10 FR - River Bet Sizing

    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      I felt like I missed a tonne of value here either by not making a pot sized bet on the river or shoving it.

      (PS villain is an unknown)

      Pacific Poker - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      SB: $10.64
      Hero (BB): $10.12
      UTG: $7.54
      CO: $10.16
      BTN: $5.09

      SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Q:club: J:heart:

      fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.05, Hero checks

      Flop: ($0.20, 2 players) 3:club: J:spade: 4:heart:
      SB bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.45, SB calls $0.30

      His flop DB suggests at least a pair, but could mean anything at the micros, so I liked raising since there are many weaker hands that can call us. Also, check/calling seems far too passive in a limped pot and I can always play bet/fold to a significant raise.

      After the call I figured he must have some sort of weaker JX type hand, maybe 66 - TT, with some two pairs and sets since it was a limped pot. I didnt really put him on a draw at the time due to the flop texture but in hindsight it is not impossible that he holds some gut shots and OESD's, eg A5,57, 56 etc
      .

      Turn: ($1.10, 2 players) Q:heart:
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.72, SB calls $0.72

      Turn is great for me and now puts me ahead of two pair type hands that I was behind to on the flop. Obviously I could still be behind to sets but wouldn't we expect them to raise the flop for value? In addition I think we are ahead too often and want to focus on getting weaker hands to invest as much money as possible.

      It does allow for some more draws and since its not impossible for the villain to have donked with air on the flop and picked up a draw on the turn I feel it was necessary to bet for protection and value.

      However I am not sure what to do against a raise on the turn, am I supposed to bet/fold the turn. Checking and folding the turn is out of the question and I feel check/call allows too many draws to get there cheaply in case he decides to semi bluff the turn.


      River: ($2.54, 2 players) J:diamond:
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.27, SB calls $1.27

      River is the Nuts as far as I'm concerned, if he takes this line with QQ then that is just terrible play from him, but I didnt really put it in his range here whatsoever.

      Since he most likely either holds a hand like JX, maybe 33/44 for a lower FH, or a missed draw then whatever we bet on the river missed draws are never looking us up and all made hands find it hard to fold the river, despite a very strong looking line taken by me, should I be making a pot sized value bet here or even consider a river shove as I think I can still get worse hands to stack here.

      This is something I feel is a huge leak for me.

      Help please!


      Hero shows Q:club: J:heart: (Full House, Jacks full of Queens) (PreFlop 71%, Flop 81%, Turn 100%)
      SB mucks J:club: 8:club: (Three of a Kind, Jacks) (PreFlop 29%, Flop 19%, Turn 0%)
      Hero wins $4.83
  • 3 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello muel294,

      Preflop: Sometimes I even raise it up, since their limping range is a lot weaker here, but ain't wrong if we just Check and hope for a hit on flop.

      As played
      Flop: Since we were that passive preflop, then ain't wrong to raise it up here, even often fore value.
      Turn: You could even fire a bigger bet here, ~$0,90.
      River: Sometimes it's kinda close, but if I see this opponent being very loose and being bad player, I even just shove directly here, we still get a lot of Calls from worse FHs, even maybe trips.

      Best regards.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Cheers Veriz,

      Just for arguments sake, how would you recommend playing the turn against a raise vs an unknown?

      Bet/fold? Bet/call and reevaluate river?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by muel294
      Cheers Veriz,

      Just for arguments sake, how would you recommend playing the turn against a raise vs an unknown?

      Bet/fold? Bet/call and reevaluate river?
      Since it's a freeplay, it's very close. We have shown a lot of strength by raising on flop, therefore more often I'd Bet/Fold without any reads.