[NL2-NL10] Ak

    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Full Tilt Poker
      No Limit Holdem Ring game
      Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
      8 players
      Converter

      Stack sizes:
      UTG: $24.95
      UTG+1: $14.85
      MP1: $32.45
      MP2: $4.25
      CO: $3.55
      Button: $9.25
      SB: $4.40
      Utahmar: $5

      Pre-flop: (8 players) Utahmar is BB with K A
      UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25 (pot was $0.35), 3 folds, Button calls $0.25 (pot was $0.6), SB folds, SB folds, Utahmar raises to $1.5, UTG+1 folds, Button calls $1.25 (pot was $1.85).

      Flop: 4 Q 5 ($3.35, 2 players)
      Utahmar bets $2, Button raises to $4, Utahmar folds.
      Uncalled bets: $2 returned to Button.

      Results:
      Final pot: $7.35
  • 9 replies
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      I would have called here, he could do that with a FD, the Queen where you have outs or maybe just with a medium pocket pair as well. You only have $1.5 left. And you also will get information at the showdown.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      I would have pushed here without no doubts, simply because your stack and pot are almost even... Besides its not wa/wb, you still have outs and you equity against range 22+, A5s+, KQs, A6o+, KQo is 51%, pot odds are 2:1. So it seems to me that saving those 1.5$ left when you bet/fold can`t cover the opportunity cost of +EV play against this range. It's just doesn`t worth it, if you got bluffed out of here at least once - you have lost 8.85$ pot and saved 1.5$, net -7.35$, assuming we saw opponent cards after the hand. So now you need to make 5 correct saves to break-even from this move.

      The main point is your pot odds, If you are going to be obviously commited after your cbet, than not pushing here is -EV. I guess for this reason basic SS strategy says that you have to push any hand in HU if you were a pre-flop raiser and your stack is smaller or even the bank.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      That i think means push overcards on almost any flops ( AJ+ high on paired boards too , not KQ ), because with cbet u get commited anyway 90% of the time, bacause i usually blind some down, than raise usually on 1-2 limper, that builds pot near to my stack.
      Probably im still not the best at cbet ting.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by Utahmar
      That i think means push overcards on almost any flops ( AJ+ high on paired boards too , not KQ ), because with cbet u get commited anyway 90% of the time, bacause i usually blind some down, than raise usually on 1-2 limper, that builds pot near to my stack.
      Probably im still not the best at cbet ting.
      You are commited before cbet here... Technically, you will be commited after c/bet every time, yes, but you bet 2/3 when a) you can save substantial part of your stack b) its likely that you are behind and you have only few outs to improve

      but beeing commited on flop (before making c/bet) is a good thing. You are allowed to make mathematically correct move, while not giving your oppononent any chance to outperform you...

      Again, for this there is an easy rule in basic SSS
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      In this case it might be better to push even preflop, not let them outdraw you on the flop.
      If this not brings , the only better hands call thing ...
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, Utahmar, you can`t "not let them to outdraw you", since there is no hand which is 100% favourite pre-flop... they will outdraw you simply because you will be holding the best hand most of the time. You don`t want to push pre-flop first in, since in most cases you want them to call... but if somebody raised before me, I would push pre-flop most of the time
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      i totally agree with xylere here.
      very easy push... when you want to call a raise on the flop a normal (non push) conti bet doesn´t make sence at all imo ^^
    • Eyeshield77
      Eyeshield77
      Black
      Joined: 07.10.2007 Posts: 2,237
      Originally posted by xylere
      You are commited before cbet here... Technically, you will be commited after c/bet every time, yes, but you bet 2/3 when a) you can save substantial part of your stack b) its likely that you are behind and you have only few outs to improve
      c) when you want opp to answer really badly, some kind of active slowplay, when check from you will be more suspicious to this kind of opponent than bet.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by Eyeshield77
      Originally posted by xylere
      You are commited before cbet here... Technically, you will be commited after c/bet every time, yes, but you bet 2/3 when a) you can save substantial part of your stack b) its likely that you are behind and you have only few outs to improve
      c) when you want opp to answer really badly, some kind of active slowplay, when check from you will be more suspicious to this kind of opponent than bet.
      very good point ! But since I have to cover my overcard pushes from time to time, I would make this kind of play against multitablers (those I mark, who play 6-7+), who is not likely to follow my posflop lines... hopefully, nowdays every second is multitabler)