How u calcultae the Odds and Pot Odds while u play?

    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
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      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      I would like be able to make the most possible right decision while I am playing and in particular a decision as much close to the right odds.

      So, which method u using while u play to calculate if a call is right or not?
      How I can quick calculate the pot odds and compare with the the odds of my hand?
  • 20 replies
    • Targetme
      Targetme
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      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      equilator its somewhere on this site for dl I think im 2 lazy to use it
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      I simply don't
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
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      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      Can we use Equilator with the client open?
      Is it allowed?
      Thx :heart:
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      No it's not, just use it post session and soon you'll know everything intuitively while you play
    • supeyrio
      supeyrio
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      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,106
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      No it's not, just use it post session and soon you'll know everything intuitively while you play
      it is allowed :tongue:
    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      outs just times by 4 for the turn + river and 2 for the river. it's pretty scientific.

      to work out pot odds it's kinda easy maths. just use ratios and such
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by supeyrio
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      No it's not, just use it post session and soon you'll know everything intuitively while you play
      it is allowed :tongue:
      Ah yea, sorry mixed it up with smth else
    • JazBenz
      JazBenz
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      Joined: 09.02.2010 Posts: 277
      with time and experience you simply know when to call or fold in regards to the board, potsize and what you are holding
    • Dendra
      Dendra
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      Joined: 28.01.2009 Posts: 479
      y for outs the 4-2 rule is pretty precise and I'd prolly be clueless about those percentages without it, it misses the precise chances of hitting your outs by only +/- 1%.

      as for the odds, dunno any quick way, I just look at the bet size and if I like it, I call it :P
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
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      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      OK, Thanks guys first of all for your attention and help.
      Please forgive me as I am so thick but what I mean, how I can compare Pot Odds and my Odds to decide if a call (or any action in general) is right?

      For example, I have a flush draw on the flop and yes, 9x4= 36-1=35%
      while the pot odds are 3,5:1.
      But how I can have the some ratio for my odds? (I mean as fast I can do for the pot odds by divide the Pot/bet)
      Thx
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
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      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Originally posted by Dendra
      y for outs the 4-2 rule is pretty precise and I'd prolly be clueless about those percentages without it, it misses the precise chances of hitting your outs by only +/- 1%.

      as for the odds, dunno any quick way, I just look at the bet size and if I like it, I call it :P
      +1
    • savage1981
      savage1981
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      Joined: 31.05.2010 Posts: 945
      50% = 1:1
      33% = 2:1
      25% = 3:1
      20% = 4:1
      10% = 9:1
    • pcotter
      pcotter
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 10
      From Roy Rounder emails....


      You can calculate
      the PERCENTAGE CHANCE you have of making your hand by
      DOUBLING the NUMBER OF OUTS and adding one:

      (OUTS X 2) + 1 = % of getting a card you need

      Remember, "outs" refers to the number of cards in the deck
      that will complete (or "make") your hand.

      For example, let's say you're holding J-10 and the board
      reads:

      8-9-2

      That means either a seven or a Queen will complete your
      straight. Since there are four sevens and four Queens in the
      deck, you have EIGHT OUTS.

      OK... so let's take a look at how this works:

      First, let me give you the REAL percentages for each
      situation. I've created a chart.

      The first column is how many OUTS you have. The second is
      your chance of hitting on the TURN card. And the third
      column is your chance of hitting on the RIVER card.


      OK, so here's the chart:

      -------------------------
      OUTS TURN RIVER

      1 2.13% 2.17%
      2 4.26% 4.35%
      3 6.38% 6.52%
      4 8.51% 8.70%
      5 10.64% 10.87%
      6 12.77% 13.04%
      7 14.89% 15.22%
      8 17.02% 17.39%
      9 19.15% 19.57%
      10 21.23% 21.47%
      11 23.40% 23.91%
      12 25.53% 26.09%
      13 27.66% 28.26%
      14 29.79% 30.43%
      15 31.91% 32.61%
      16 34.04% 34.76%
      17 36.17% 36.96%
      18 38.30% 39.13%
      19 40.43% 41.30%
      20 42.55% 43.48%
      21 44.68% 45.65%
      -------------------------

      As you can see, the formula holds true... for the most part.

      If you have three outs or fewer, there's really no need to
      add one.

      But then again, if you have three outs or fewer, you
      probably shouldn't be calculating odds... you should be
      FOLDING instead!

      And if you have more than ELEVEN outs, you should probably
      add TWO, instead of one.

      So... to break it down:

      1-3 Outs: Outs x 2 = % of hitting

      3-11 Outs: (Outs x 2) + 1 = % of hitting

      12+ Outs: (Outs X 2) + 2 = % of hitting

      So already we're getting kind of complicated, and these
      aren't even giving us EXACT numbers.

      However... here is why this simple little formula is SO
      POWERFUL:

      For the most part, in REAL LIFE poker situations, the times
      where you want to calculate odds are in situations where you
      have about 3-11 outs.

      Think about it... in order to have MORE than eleven outs,
      you'd have to have something like an open-ended straight
      draw AND a flush draw. And that's a situation where you
      should probably be aggressively BETTING or RAISING... not
      doing math.

      OK... so now you know how to QUICKLY and EASILY figure out
      the odds of making your hand. What REAL VALUE does this add
      to your game?

      The answer is, "Not much."

      You must know how to APPLY this knowledge to bet sizes...
      that way you can make the right decision on whether to call,
      raise, or fold.

      *** HOW TO CALCULATE "BETTING PERCENTAGE" ***

      So now we need to learn how to calculate "betting
      percentage". Luckily, this is very simple.

      The two numbers you need to compare are:

      1. Bet size
      2. Pot size

      The FORMULA is this:

      Bet Size / (Pot Size + Bet Size)

      For example, let's say there's $90 in the pot and the bet is
      $10. The betting percentage would be $10 divided by $100
      ($90 + $10)... or 10%.

      If you were looking at it strictly in terms of odds, you'd
      say your chances were 90:10.

      90:10 means you'd miss 90 times and hit 10 times. That's a
      total of making it 10 times out of 100 times, which equals
      10%.

      Now... the FINAL part to all of this is to compare your HAND
      ODDS to your BETTING ODDS.

      If you have a higher percentage chance of MAKING your hand
      than the betting percentage, you should call...

      Let's look at some examples to make sense of all this
      madness...

      Example:

      You've got A-2 of diamonds and the flop hits:

      5d-Qd-Ks

      That means there are two diamonds on the board and two in
      your hand... so you've got the nut flush draw.

      You're on the button. There's $40 in the pot from before the
      flop. Don bets $20 after the flop and three players call.
      The action is to you.

      So the pot size equals $120, and you need to decide whether
      to call or not.

      If you based your decision strictly on odds, here's how it
      would look:

      You have nine OUTS... since there are thirteen diamonds in
      the deck and you already see four of them (13 minus 4 = 9).

      So we plug NINE into our handy formula...

      9 x 2 = 18

      Add 1 = 19% chance of making the flush

      Now... if we look at the chart (we don't need to), we see
      that the real percentage is 19.15%.

      Presto. Works like a charm.

      Now we just need to compare the bet size and pot size to
      find our "betting percentage".

      The bet size is $20 and there's $120 in the pot.

      So we divide $20 by $140 ($120 + $20).

      We don't even need to do the math. We just need to figure
      out if it's BIGGER or SMALLER than 19% (which can be rounded
      to 20%).

      Obviously, 20/140 is smaller than 20%.

      The conclusion?

      Well that means our odds of GETTING another diamond and
      completing our hand are HIGHER than the betting percentage.

      This means our pot odds are GOOD. We should call or raise...
      but not fold.

      OK, now for another quick example:

      Let's say we've got K-J of spades and the flop hits:

      Ah-10d-4c

      No spades... but we have an inside straight draw. All we
      need is the Queen.

      Let's use the same numbers from the last example:

      Pot Size = $120
      Bet Size = $20

      Should we fold or call?

      20/140 equals 1/7. We need to figure out if our odds of
      hitting our inside straight are higher or lower.

      Well, since the only card that can really help us is a
      Queen, we have FOUR outs (the four Queens).

      So we double the four and add one...

      (4 x 2) + 1 = 9% of getting our Queen on the turn.

      The REAL percentage is 8.51%. Pretty close.

      So what's bigger... 1/7 or 9%?

      The answer is 1/7.

      I always just round numbers to keep it simple. In my mind,
      9% is about 10%, which would be 1/10. Obviously 1/7 is
      higher than 1/10.

      So that means our betting percentage is higher than our hand
      odds... which is bad.

      So we fold.

      In order to call, the betting percentage would have needed
      to be LOWER than 9%. And as you know, that's VERY RARE.

      So... that's it. That's the "quick and dirty" way to
      calculate pot odds. Here's the 3-step review:

      1. Double your outs and add 1. This equals your approximate
      percentage of "hitting".

      2. Divide the bet size by the pot size added to the bet
      size. (Bet Size / [Pot Size + Bet Size])

      3. Compare the "hand odds" to the "bet odds". If the hand
      odds are higher, you should stay in the hand. If the hand
      odds are smaller, get out.

      That's it.

      At first some of this may seem like an awful lot of work and
      effort... and requires extra THINKING.

      But if you're serious about poker, you've got to try these
      types of things. What you'll discover is that after using
      this stuff for a little while, it all becomes NATURAL in no
      time.

      And soon you'll never have to actually do ANY of this.

      For example... after figuring it out a couple times, you'll
      quickly learn that you should NOT chase inside straights.
      It's not worth it.

      Also, you shouldn't stay in a hand with just an Ace high
      hoping to hit top pair (unless it's a heads-up match or
      something).

      And so on.

      But the BAD NEWS is that calculating odds doesn't always
      give you clear cut "answers". Odds are just another piece of
      the puzzle... to be added to your poker "weapons".

      In the first example I shared with you, we were on the nut
      flush draw with multiple players in the hand. This is a
      situation where the IMPLIED ODDS are so enormous that the
      "real" odds don't matter.

      Because think about it: If you hit your flush, someone ELSE
      probably hit it too... except you'll have the NUTS. This
      means you're very likely to get someone's ENTIRE chip stack.

      Also... odds don't tell you whether to CALL or RAISE. As you
      know, raising is a key part of the game, and can often buy
      you a "free card" while on a draw.

      And in the same way, it's not even really "possible" to
      calculate the exact number of OUTS or the exact POT SIZE.

      For instance... if there are three opponents in a hand and
      two diamonds on the board, you'd better believe SOMEONE ELSE
      is holding two diamonds. So you don't REALLY have nine
      outs... since more than four diamonds are being used.

      If you aren't last to act, the exact pot size is unknown
      because you DON'T KNOW what the player(s) behind you will
      do. They may fold, they may call, or they may RAISE.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      That's cool!!!
      Great post ;) TY
      I :heart: IT!!!!
    • ivangavazzi
      ivangavazzi
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2010 Posts: 4
      Hey guys!!

      I have a question here:

      According to the 4/2 rule, let's say we have 6 outs:

      turn: 6x4=24%
      river=8% (assuming the turn card don't hepl any way)

      And, according the long reply from pcotters ( original ROY ROUNDERS), the chances of hitting our outas are:

      turn=(2x6)+1 = 13%
      river= turn=13%

      So, what's wrong here?? Am I missing something or those numbers are just bad?

      I checked Phil Gordon book about the 4/2 rule and it's okay accordind to his "real tabble".
      And Roy Rounders say his formula is ok too, according to his "real tables". Is this guy wrong??

      Please help!!

      Thxx

      Ivan
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by ivangavazzi
      Hey guys!!

      I have a question here:

      According to the 4/2 rule, let's say we have 6 outs:

      turn: 6x4=24%
      river=8% (assuming the turn card don't hepl any way)

      And, according the long reply from pcotters ( original ROY ROUNDERS), the chances of hitting our outas are:

      turn=(2x6)+1 = 13%
      river= turn=13%

      So, what's wrong here?? Am I missing something or those numbers are just bad?

      I checked Phil Gordon book about the 4/2 rule and it's okay accordind to his "real tabble".
      And Roy Rounders say his formula is ok too, according to his "real tables". Is this guy wrong??

      Please help!!

      Thxx

      Ivan
      From flop to river (2 cards to come) it's outs*4 for less than 10 outs.
      From flop to turn or turn to river (1 card to come) it's half. (outs*2)

      But these are rough numbers. Actual equity is slightly different from flop to turn and turn to river because there are less cards remaining in the deck.
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      It's a great post and all but it's not very realistic.
      NO games have people betting 1/5th+ into a pot.
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
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      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      Micro limit tables do!!

      Problem is that its usually their idea of value betting, so they often have the nuts already.
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      to be fair I have seen fish bet .20 into $1, but its either air or the nuts, and is extremely rare.
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