Weekly Vote: What Do you Think of Hellmuth's Play in this Video Clip?

  • Poll
    • Weekly Vote: What Do you Think of Hellmuth's Play in this Video Clip?

      • 43
        You can play this a number of ways, it depends on the situation
        47%
      • 27
        This play sucks
        30%
      • 21
        I'm a fan of this play
        23%
      Total: 91 Votes
    • DanielUK
      DanielUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2010 Posts: 91
      Watch the clip of a Hellmuth vs Matusow hand on Poker After Dark Season 6 and let us know what you think of Hellmuth's play. Do you like the line he takes or not? Cast your vote and discuss your views on our forum.

  • 28 replies
    • jokerstar77mucker
      jokerstar77mucker
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 74
      Its so weak if you ask me he has a savage draw, but at the same time fair play for losing so little. If i remember correctly mike was short enough so probably not getting hime to fold but he could at least make a play on the turn!
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      The better question is what you think of Brunsons doll?
    • jokerstar77mucker
      jokerstar77mucker
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 74
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      The better question is what you think of Brunsons doll?
      You mean baby phil lol priceless
    • ladman
      ladman
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2009 Posts: 289
      how is that not a great play. He was never gettin him to fold at any point in that hand. maybe a pot size bet or more on flop but that would have been uncharacteristic
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      What's more important is what that doll is doing at the table lol.
    • Scarmaker
      Scarmaker
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2009 Posts: 152
      "how is that not a great play. He was never gettin him to fold at any point in that hand"

      What do u mean by that?

      On the flop Matusow can have a TON of hands here that have Phil beat atm, but will fold if facing a raise.

      And for those he will not fold, Phil has two scenarios:

      a) If called, he is building himself a nice pot in case he hits his draw, which he does quite often + he can also hit K or J on the turn, giving him extra equity.

      b) If re-raised he can jam it easily - it's never bad with a hand like this. U are 50/50 against set, two pair and tp and against Ahxh u r bit better than 1:2.
    • ladman
      ladman
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2009 Posts: 289
      if he thinks he is better why would he choose to flip. And i dont see Mike folding flop and less bet or 3bet is large
    • Gugi19
      Gugi19
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 325
      Weak play, he has fold equity and enough equity against calling range, and his ego and mindset are even worse.
      But, who am I to say anything, the guy is world champion!
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Uhm, he's Phil Hellmuth. He folds QQ 15bb deep. Nuff said!
    • Scarmaker
      Scarmaker
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2009 Posts: 152
      Originally posted by ladman
      if he thinks he is better why would he choose to flip. And i dont see Mike folding flop and less bet or 3bet is large
      I have to honestly say, sir, that I have no idea what do u mean by that.
    • Dendra
      Dendra
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2009 Posts: 479
      where did this come from :D blast from the past :) anyway

      more important question is,as mentioned already, what is that doll doing at the table :D

      as for PH - he lost the minimum in that hand, I wouldn't have anything against his passive play if I didn't see him play 2nd nuts the same way, so if we look at the big picture, it's bad play, if it's this specific hand, I think there are enough reasons to make this a legit play.
    • jokerstar77mucker
      jokerstar77mucker
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 74
      Todd brought along the doll cause it crys and they were calling it baby phil, in others words hellmuts a crybaby! They were using it to take the piss out him for the whole show.

      There's also a good hand in that session where adams get phil off TT with T7s i think it was 4bet pre and adams flop FD and phil to fold.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by Dendra
      I wouldn't have anything against his passive play if I didn't see him play 2nd nuts the same way
      I'd say quite the opposite, if he calls his big made hands then by raising his range is pretty damn draw/air heavy which makes it easier for opponents to playback at also by calling such hands he protects his made hands from getting barreled on scare cards on turn or river while at same time opponents still will give him some credit on blank cards and should tend to give up more easily.
    • pogodon
      pogodon
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      imagine how different this hand would play if you swapped them two players for nearly any two internet players,

      i dont know how he doesn't raise the turn
    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      He HAS to put it all in on flop. Unless he is against a set, he is AT LEAST a coinflip. After the turn card comes, the odds change, and his hand looses value. On the flop he is gettting at least 50% chance of winning, with slightly better than 1:1 money. You let one card to come on the turn, your probability is reshuffled and your hand is not that good anymore. You need to put it all in when you now you have the best odds, that is your job as a poker player. I think going all in on the flop in this case is a value bet.
      S.
    • livelydolphin
      livelydolphin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2010 Posts: 30
      Think about it, after Phil shows the huge draw hand and played it conservatively, people will give him respect for his raises in the future. His semi-bluff will then work more often than not because people won't put him on a drawing hand. So therefore his conservative approach enables him to bluff more successfully in the future. Poker is not about a particular hand. In this case it can lead to future gains.
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      Originally posted by livelydolphin
      Think about it, after Phil shows the huge draw hand and played it conservatively, people will give him respect for his raises in the future. His semi-bluff will then work more often than not because people won't put him on a drawing hand. So therefore his conservative approach enables him to bluff more successfully in the future. Poker is not about a particular hand. In this case it can lead to future gains.
      I think you are wrong. When people know that he loves to slowplay big made hands and very big draws his raising range is very weak and should be looked up a lot.
    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      It is not a semibluff. He has >= 50% of that flop. A semibluff is a drawing hand that at this moment is beat (i.e, vs 1 other player is <50%), and might have good implied odds. I don't think he gets respect, on the contrary: they will start stealing from him and his value bets won't get called.
      S.
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      standard imo... raising flop is a little spewy the other guy bet out potsized
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