Getting Away from a losing hand

    • CoachB
      CoachB
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 12
      G'day,

      I am still relatively new to the game but am all consumed in trying to get better.

      I find I can outplay some very good players for hours but then have a major brain snap and leak all of my carefully collected chips in one hand because I can't get away from it.

      Eg last night paying on PS 50/100NL ground my stack from $40 to $126 on one table (I was multitabling 4 tables) on at one point with two supernovas on the table.

      A new player came to the table, 2 seats to my left, and was folding everything and I was stealing his BB like a demon.

      Then he re-raised my semi-bluff AhTh. I called. The flop was 8 8 T rainbow.
      (I am 74% on Poker Stove)

      He made a small bet, I reraised, he pushed.....I called already knowing I was behnd....to see JJ.

      What methods do you guys use to get away from dangerous hands!

      CB
  • 11 replies
    • sufix645
      sufix645
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2009 Posts: 519
      fold button ;)
      just think what hand do he could have and how often you beat that range. if you will call and lose, but you kill most of his range, then good hand, wp
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      BRM firstly. Secondly, you called his 3-bet with ATo after you had been stealing his bb all day with no resistance?

      Nits are 3-betting AK and JJ+ from the blinds to a late position stealraise, so you should be able to fold comfortably preflop.

      However, since you called preflop, you should probably call the flop and hope he won't continue the turn with AK or worse (most players wont). If he continues the turn after 3-betting you preflop 1 time out of a significant sample, you're behind to a LOT of his range and should probably lean towards folding. Depends what is Turn C-bet percentage is.
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Multiple things to say/ask:

      1) Why buy in for only $40? Thats not a full stack at NL50 or 100!
      2) Why even call his 3bet with AT? He folds all day then suddenly 3bets you! That should tell you you're behind.
      3) Theres that magic button in the sofware called "fold" =)

      I'm not been rude im trying to help...You obviously dont have the skill or bankroll to beat NL50 or 100 so maybe you should play NL25 or 10?
    • CoachB
      CoachB
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 12
      Thanks for the feedback, all appreciated and being pondered upon
      as I try and improve / continue my poker journey.

      A couple of points:

      1. Playing multiple tables and having to make the decision as a snap sometimes leads to errors. I don't like AT at the best of time but I was in position. I hindsight could have should have folded pre flop.

      2. Can I just ask about two things range and bet sizing.

      a. Range - I had him on a TAG range which post flop had me 74% against his full range. Because he 3 bets you are saying his range becomes JJ - AA and AK, AQ maybe AJ?
      So I am < 50% therefore fold. If he three bets more often expand the range and therefore possibly ahead with TT but still better to fold.

      b. If I had him on a slightly wider range due to his Poker Tracker stats, and wanted to find out whether I was ahead. What would be an appropriate bet size? And what do we know if he flat calls, other responses a bit easier to read.

      Thanks.

      CB
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      In response:

      1) I dont believe this is the case only 4 tabling though. Still, why are you not sitting with a 100bb stack? Also yeah you had n but you also said he had constintly been folding his BB, so then when he does finally defend it makes your trash regardless of having posistion imo. It's bleeding chips calling in that scenario.

      2) yep no problem...

      a: Pritty much his range will be JJ+ & AK/AQ, i think AJ would be to loose for him. If we expand the range you would now be looking at something like 99+ & AT+, so still in bad shape so calling still isnt an option...BUT...i would say we could possibley 4bet him if we think he has the 2nd range. By doing so we generate some fold equity, hands like 99, TT (maybe JJ), AJ will possibley fold (maybe AQ aswell). What your saying by 4 beting is something like "Ok i've been stealing quite loose but i really have a big hand this time". If you get 5 bet you just fold and if you get called you cbet but give up if called-raised or donked into, simpley put turning the hand into a bluff. But to do this you need to be sure you are chossing the right player. If he's 3bet you once maybe not an idea, but if its the 2nd or 3rd time then go for it.

      b: Are you talking about 4 betting pre flop? If so about 2.5X. So say you steal raise $1.50 he 3bets to $4.50, you should 4 bet about $11 to $11.75. If he then flat calls simpley what i've said above. if he flats he'll likley have JJ, QQ or AK (If he's capable of just flating a 4 bet with KK and AA) so you need to know how he'd play those two hands faced with a 4 bet.

      I hope that helps?

      *note* my exarmples are asuming you are playing with a 100bb stack!!
    • CoachB
      CoachB
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 12
      Great help. Thanks.

      Its one thing giving hard earned chips away once.

      Its not acceptable a second time, and I realise I need to tighten up and shut down the leaks.

      Clear message, get away from marginal hands without a clear read even if ahead.

      Re chip stack, I was playing on Stars (usually play FTP) and most of my roll was in my main account. I accept this as an error and will also fix.

      Thanks Agan.

      CB
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      No worries. But i gont recall saying "Get away from a hand if your marginally ahead". That would just be giving up EV. But reality of the spot is your ahead of nothing, fliping with 1 hand in a loose range (99) and the rest you noticabley.

      GL though
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Originally posted by CoachB
      G'day,

      I am still relatively new to the game but am all consumed in trying to get better.

      I find I can outplay some very good players for hours but then have a major brain snap and leak all of my carefully collected chips in one hand because I can't get away from it.

      Eg last night paying on PS 50/100NL ground my stack from $40 to $126 on one table (I was multitabling 4 tables) on at one point with two supernovas on the table.
      So you are new to the game and you 4 table NL50/100? Why dont you just donate ur money to some charity instead?
      Move down to NL5 and learn to play there imo.
    • ScroogeMcMuck
      ScroogeMcMuck
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2011 Posts: 16
      Maybe you should use your PT3 (I assume ur using it or HEM) and select some filters and find where you are leaking. Here's a good article on finding leaks using PT3.

      Fixing Leaks with Poker Tracker 3
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      The only way to get away from losing a hand is to win it instead
    • CoachB
      CoachB
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 12
      Originally posted by ScroogeMcMuck
      Maybe you should use your PT3 (I assume ur using it or HEM) and select some filters and find where you are leaking. Here's a good article on finding leaks using PT3.

      Fixing Leaks with Poker Tracker 3
      Thanks Scrooge, nice article with some practical advice.

      CB