Light somewhere ?

    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Im playing SSS on Full Tilt.
      Im quite sure sometime in the misty future probably i'll be okay, some confirmations welcomed, or point outs also.

      First i started out at NL50



      Now that was bad, although my Sklansky bucks going up here also :



      So i switched down to NL25, as i was down to 200$, story continues :



      Im playing better, learned a few i hope, so my Sklansky even better :




      Still, i have no results.
  • 21 replies
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Full Tilts rakeback, and the Iron Man freeroll winning ( only 45$ but better than nothing ) keeps me above the water atm ....
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,185
      Hi Utahmar,

      Just take some rest. I hope you'll go up again soon!

      Good luck at the tables!
      -thunderbird56-
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      hmm, I didn`t have such longterm downswings, but a lot of short ones... anyway, I saw PT stats of one of the SSS coaches, he played 60k on NL 200 with a winrate 0.6BB/100, so I guess its ok...

      btw, what is Sklansky $?
    • 098799
      098799
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      'Slansky bucks factor' is the amount of money, that David Sklansky owe you (according to his book). He formulated 'the fundamental theorem of poker' which says that every time you play a hand as if you saw your oponents' cards, you gain. So - if it happens that you play a hand correctly and lose, it seems that Sklansky lied to you and owe you the amount you lost :) .
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Sklansky bucks is your +EV, your equity, fair share. Like in a 100$ pot your AAs equity is like ~80-20 on KK (preflop allin for 50-50), even if you win, our buddy Sklansky gives you only 80, and 20 to the other guy. And he lost (KK guy ) 30 Sklansky bucks in the process.
      Even if you happen to beat AA with the KK, you are credited -30$.
    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
      Gold
      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Utahmar, do not worry...even i am after 12k hands in NL10,playing SSS on -0.5BB/100...i will reread articles especially about evaluating your hand on the flop, posting some hands and i want to some good article on the topic "defending blinds and playing on the blinds" becuase i have a "mayor" lost there -86BB/100!!!

      As a SSS player you are often throwing your blinds away just like that and it would be a good from pokerstrategy team to post some article on such topic.

      Have fun playing poker;)

      Drach
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by drachdudek
      i want to some good article on the topic "defending blinds and playing on the blinds" becuase i have a "mayor" lost there -86BB/100!!!
      forget about it. Blinds are positions with negative expectation for every player... My PT shows -1 183$ net from BB... doesn`t mean I play badly)

      To correctly steal, reasteal or defend your blinds you need very big statistics sample (3-4k hands for 1 opponent). It`s just doesn`t worth it on NL 10. You should consider stealing starting from NL 100.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      From my last day play when i filter to VPIP hands i earned +4.53$. ( Even tho I lost 4 allins, and won only 1 ).
      I was at least 50 50 in all situations or better. Still i won some.
      BUT
      I lost 31.25$ from the blinds ( either folded before, or on the flop ).
      I dont think there's anything any1 could do about it.
    • finchybg
      finchybg
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2007 Posts: 910
      I have noticed in my game several weeks ago(playing with 3/4 the max buy-in, before coming across PokerStrategy) that the reason why my ROI from the blinds is negative is that I call(because of the "discount") with marginal hands just to see the flop... And often you get involved where you should not.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Euhm, actually, you don't lose any money on showdowns, you get about the right amount of money out of them.
      You just lose big time on none showdown hands ... your good hands probably get folded to you too much (too agressive yourself) or/and you fold a lot after being in deep yourself (too scared of other people's raises)

      This is my graph (only of the hands played on this computer) :





      Graph 1 :
      The red line = Skansky bucks on showdowns
      The blue line = Real bucks on showdowns
      The green line = Real bucks on all hands
      Graph 2 :
      The red line = Luck line

      As you can see, in my case, the blue and green lines are almost equal, meaning that I don't lose a lot of money when not seeing the showdowns. It's less than the amount I paid when folding blinds.
      However, I see my blue line way below my red line, meaning that I have been running quite unlucky.

      The continuous downslide in the second graph shows that I'm actually in a continuous downswing (despite being called a luckbox by some, this is not the case by far as you can see)
      In your case, the luck line would only be slightly below zero, so there's another flaw in your game ...
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Originally posted by xylere
      Originally posted by drachdudek
      i want to some good article on the topic "defending blinds and playing on the blinds" becuase i have a "mayor" lost there -86BB/100!!!
      forget about it. Blinds are positions with negative expectation for every player... My PT shows -1 183$ net from BB... doesn`t mean I play badly)

      To correctly steal, reasteal or defend your blinds you need very big statistics sample (3-4k hands for 1 opponent). It`s just doesn`t worth it on NL 10. You should consider stealing starting from NL 100.
      Blind defense is important. -86BB/100 is just ridiculously high...
      I'm down 9BB/100 on my big blind and 17BB/100 on my small blind, which saves me a LOT of money.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      SonicXT, I am not saying BD is not important) But you are playing BSS as far as I know?)
      I don`t recommend stealing on low limits for SSS players, since stealraise, basically, commits you) You have to follow with cbet, etc...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Won W/O showdown means they folded to your bet. Most cases they dont, or other cases you hit nothing with 2 or 3 opponents, and play check fold. For they call a shortstack most of the time, or reraise allin.
      With shortstack you fold on the flop, or getting allin to showdown most times. Yes im losing at won without showdown. But that's mainly the blinds checked / folded on the flop, or folded before the flop.
      I will try to steal more to compensate.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      What you missed is arrived, luck went down under Sklansky.



      And yes the leak is at the negative won without showdown part. Couldnt see how to fix that.
      Give me advice, how to filter hands that i folded, although i should have push / call.
      On NL25 :
      My SSS hands that are not profitable :
      99 lost 20.35$
      AJs lost 14.2.1$
      KQs lost 3.1$
      Overall won : 253$
      Im net down -77$
      Overall they are 0.83PTBB / hand profitable, means 83 PTBB / 100 hand.
      My went to showdown stat with these hands are 52%, Won when see flop is 55%.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Well, do you make many continuation bets ?
      If so, do you sometimes push through even if they're called on the flop ?
      To me, your losses without showdown seems to grow so gradually, that it's almost certain that you lose a lot to raises preflop and giving it up to a contiuation bet too easily. One big advantage of being a shortstack is that bigstacks fear to bluff you as their fold equity decreasing with your remaining stack ... make use of that. Push a bit more.
      Probably your Skansky bucks will go down a bit as a result of called bluffs lost, but you're lost without showdown should decrease significantly as well as big stacks give it up.
      Also, and that's just my opinion, I'd push with almost any pair above 6's or any Ace whenever I'm in the blinds and you get a raise and no or one caller in front (both big stacks). You get reasonable fold equity from people limping with suited connectors, low pairs and if they're a PS addict, even hands up to JJ and AQ.

      If not ... consider moving to BSS. =)
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      First action on flop after a preflop raise :

      Raise 4.6%
      Bet 63,19%
      Call 4.6%
      Check 20.71%
      Fold 6.55%

      No Flop / No Action 64.78%
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Nothing wrong there, albeit that you can't ever call with SSS.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Call an allin donk bet with a made hand, where you dont have stack to reraise allin. Consider call as a raise.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Right, forgot about that :D
      Well, I'm clueless now ... maybe it's the normal SSS pattern, however I wouldn't see how it's profitable then. I guess some more blind defense, steals and resteals make the difference ... all I can think of that's left.
      I just really dislike the green line diverging that much...

      Mine's unusually close to the blue line though, it's normal that's it's a little below, but not that much.
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