[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH 66 turn play

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,137
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      SB ($9.88)
      BB ($2.10)
      UTG ($12.67)
      UTG+1 ($13.20)
      Hero ($20.06)
      BTN ($12.71)

      Dealt to Hero 6:club: 6:heart:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN calls $0.40, fold, fold

      FLOP ($0.95) 5:club: 7:club: 6:spade:

      Hero bets $0.80, BTN calls $0.80

      TURN ($2.55) 5:club: 7:club: 6:spade: 8:club:

      Hero bets $1.50, BTN raises to $3, Hero calls $1.50

      RIVER ($8.55) 5:club: 7:club: 6:spade: 8:club: 8:diamond:

      Hero bets $15.86 (AI), BTN folds

      Hero shows 6:club: 6:heart:

      Hero wins $8.13

      88/6/1.6 fold to cbet 52, WTSD 28, 223 hands

      Turn bet call or check call would be better? The board is so scary, so he might fold all his weaker hands to a bet. If I check, he maybe will try to bluff me?
  • 7 replies
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,691
      im unsure about whether to bet or c/c turn, I mean if we bet we still get very thin value from some hands but we risk getting raised and checking allows some of his other hands to hit free cards mmmm im unsure, but I hate your river play, if you did this to me I would most likely fold everything but fh, you just rep fh here everytime, and unless you were balancing your overbet river shoves on this board texture with other hands I would be folding here alw. You should just ch/shove or even ch/raise a reasonable amt if you think he is capable of folding to ch/shove, but you definitely get alot more value by c/shoving imo. If you had any hand you wanted to go broke with that didn't make a fh on the river you would broke the turn therefore your hand is so face up when you play the river like that and you miss so much value from his thin value bets.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,137
      I don't think this fish is folding flush or striaght to my shove. If the villain vere you, TAG player, then I aggre that you call only with FH. But tell me then - if I don't have a fullhouse, can I shove river as a bluff? If you say he only calls fullhouses then I can bluff profitably, but I don't think that this is the case.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,691
      You should ch/shove vs fish anyway, he is more likely to call since he 'put chips in', also what bluffs would you turn up with in that spot, you have to likely turn a made hand into a bluff and you have to assume he folds his flush, like you say a fish might not fold there, but a player like me would without some sort of read/metagame right? So bluff shoving there just isn't really great, it's another reason as to why I would be folding a big hand, I mean really what are you bluff shoving this river with? something like 57suited that you know is no good? I still don't think the risk-reward in such a spot is worth it vs a fish. But if you are value betting this river I think you should c/shove vs so many players, regs & fish, even fish can value bet thin in this spot, they don't go "yay I have a straight/flush lets check this river" they bet then go "wat the fuck he raised, oh fuck im committed now" and level themselves into a call much more.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,137
      yeah, I tried to find which hand we could have on river for bluff, but I guess there is no such hand. On flop we only bet for value. On turn we bet fold if we don't have a good hand. So there is no hand for a bluff, you are right.

      But I don't like checking river, I think its risky. He should not check his flush. But don't know if he is betting his flush 100% of the time. If he has 34 of clubs he might check.

      Edit: and its even more possible that he checks a straight. Yeah, he is probably folding straight also to such big bet, but who knows, he will have hard decision and might call to see if I am bluffing.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,691
      if hes too afraid to bet his flush he won't call an overbet shove ;)
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,137
      Originally posted by fusionpk
      if hes too afraid to bet his flush he won't call an overbet shove ;)
      yeah, but as I mentioned he might have hard decision, and sometimes call just to "catch" my bluffs
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello SPeedFANat1c,

      I'd rather Check/Call there, since we don't really want to face a raise, we were just lucky that he gave that great odds for us. Often times when he is raising bigger there we ain't getting correct odds and we even have to consider folding on turn for the given reason how we played our hand. But since we still might improve on river to our FH, I'd rather Check/Call and play it accordingly. But river since he seems to be such a station then shoving in should be fine.

      And nope, I don't really think that he is willing to bluff you that often there, maybe even find Checking back with his any kind of straight or something similar type of hands better. Therefore rather shove it in and hope to get Called by flushes or something similar what is pretty reasonable.

      Best regards.