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[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH - TPGK on limped pot vs 2

    • Tosh5457
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      Known players:

      0,05/0,1 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant.Base 0.96 by

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K:spade: , 9:heart:
      MP3 folds, CO calls $0,10, BU folds, Hero calls $0,05, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0,30) 9:club: , 8:diamond: , 2:spade: (3 players)
      Hero bets $0,25, BB raises to $0,50, CO calls $0,50, Hero calls $0,25.

      Turn: ($1,80) 3:spade: (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0,4, CO calls $0,40, Hero calls $0,40.

      River: ($3,00) 9:spade: (3 players)
      Hero bets $1,8

      That BB could have SD, GS + OCs, 98, set. CO is very donky, I've seen him calling with just overcards. I just called, because I don't want a big pot with this pair and on a limped pot. But on the turn I think I should do bet/fold, because I don't want to give free cards to BB and CO if they're drawing, and if BB has a better hand than me and raises I can fold. Right?

      As played, should I c/c on the river? If they were drawing I let them bluff. But if I check I don't extract value from 8x though...
  • 2 replies
    • fusionpk
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,692
      Preflop: I iso here so that BB won't get to see a free flop and because we take initiative + sometimes these retards even fold.

      Flop: I lead yeah pretty standard.
      Turn: In a way it's close but then again it's not really so close, I never check/call, why? We give straight draws free chance to check back, we miss value from worse 9s because they might also check back realising that value betting weak 9 into 2 opponents is probably going to be suicide.
      River: You have to decide whether they had draws or made hands, their flop and turn range is like JT T7s T9 J9 Q9 A9 maybe 89 but rarely because in general we see more turn action, but then again because you checked you make it so much harder to hand read, if you bet turn and he doesn't raise, you can assume you atleast have the best hand a good % of the time.
      On this river, as played I also just bet, it's much less likely they will bluff missed draws into 2 opponents and they are capable of levelling into calling worse because they are spewtards and the 9 makes it less likely you have one.

      I think the key here is 1) not to play scared and 2) realise why you are doing what you are doing.

      If you raise pre, you isolate often and we don't have this awkward multi-way, you should realise that you are also value raising here, K9 is probably good vs his range and we take initiative, + get in a bigger pot with quite clearly a weaker player who will probably quite often fold to a cbet, resulting in a really profitable spot.

      You can then go ahead and just bet flop & turn for value, for sure it's thin and sometimes you are beat, but in general when player flats turn they don't have you beat (apart from A9) because players will most likely raise turn with 2pair+.

      On the river you can then quite clearly say to yourself "I have the best hand here super often, should I check to induce a bluff or just straight up vbet". I mean let's think, the draws missed (apart from backdoor spades), so hes going to likely call you lighter, you need to judge your opponents aggression and realise whether or not he will bet his busted draws on this brick, I think personally vs unknown I make a value bet that I think 8x would level himself into.

      Hey maybe my advice sucks :P I'd be interested to read the hand judges thoughts.
    • veriz
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Tosh5457,

      Preflop: Depends, what do you want to hit with such a hand? And even if we do hit our TP in such situation, how do you proceed? We also never know where we stand with our TP, since in such a multiway pot they could easily have any kind of better 2pairs and etc and oftentimes I am not going broke with my TP type of hand. Also we don't hit that often straights or anything like that and also we don't have any chances of hitting flush or anything, rather just backdoor one and rarely one card flushes don't pay out much. Therefore is the question also, what do we want to hit with limping? If you plan to play at all this kind of hands, then rather isolate the limper and take the initiative or just fold it, and oftentimes for lower limits I would advice to just fold it.

      As played
      Flop: That's exactly the spot I was talking about, you could easily put yourself into difficult spot, where you might think like "oh my TP is the greatest". I don't really like to continue here at all, rather just Bet/Fold in this situation, for the given reason that we are kinda in freeplay.

      As played if flop was called
      Turn: For the given reason that he is giving that great odds for us and we Called flop then I'd consider continuing here also.
      River: And yes, I'd rather value-bet smallish here as you did and if I get raised then might even prefer to just fold it. Since they will just Check behind a lot worse hands and there Check/Call doesn't make sense.

      Best regards.