[NL2-NL10] against unknown

    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
      SB ($9.25)
      BB ($12.50)
      UTG ($16.57)
      UTG+1 ($14.74)
      Hero ($5.13)
      BTN ($4.55)

      Dealt to Hero Q:diamond: K:diamond:

      fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 raises to $14.74 (AI), Hero calls $3.63 (AI)

      FLOP ($10.61) 4:spade: A:diamond: 9:diamond:

      TURN ($10.61) 4:spade: A:diamond: 9:diamond: 2:club:

      RIVER ($10.61) 4:spade: A:diamond: 9:diamond: 2:club: 2:diamond:

      Hero shows Q:diamond: K:diamond:
      (Pre 31%, Flop 37.2%, Turn 20.5%)

      UTG+1 shows A:heart: Q:club:
      (Pre 69%, Flop 62.8%, Turn 79.5%)

      Hero wins $10.08

      Hi, :)

      I have problem facing the unknown's minraise/shove. I usually raise 6bb against minraise. Should I call the shove against the unknown? The problem is I don't know his/her range. Help!

      Thanks. :D
  • 14 replies
    • MeanGreen
      MeanGreen
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2007 Posts: 862
      With KQ in MP against a minraise, I think I'd rather fold preflop without any stats on villain. As played I would have raised to 6bb as well.

      Since KQ is the bottom of the SSS range, I'd fold against the push, because I don't think the average unknown will minraise/push with a range you beat with KQ.

      Still the open minraise/push with AQ is worth a note, as I'd expect far stronger hands to make this kind of move.
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by MeanGreen
      With KQ in MP against a minraise, I think I'd rather fold preflop without any stats on villain. As played I would have raised to 6bb as well.

      Since KQ is the bottom of the SSS range, I'd fold against the push, because I don't think the average unknown will minraise/push with a range you beat with KQ.

      Still the open minraise/push with AQ is worth a note, as I'd expect far stronger hands to make this kind of move.
      Hi,

      I taken the note. :D With what range you will call against the shove?

      Thanks
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Hi,

      Calculate the EQ needed to call his shove.
      Then use the equilator and see with which hands you get that needed EQ. I would put him on the range AQ+, TT+ at tightest.

      T.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hey JHTAN,

      Originally posted by Tampaloeres81
      Hi,

      Calculate the EQ needed to call his shove.
      Then use the equilator and see with which hands you get that needed EQ. I would put him on the range AQ+, TT+ at tightest.

      T.
      +1

      If villain is unknown just use the basic strategy...

      You play as if there were 2 limpers, so what would you do if one of them limp/raised? With other words, there's a raise behind you and the chart tells you what hands to continue with.

      As for the posted hand, raise/fold indeed.

      Regards,
      burek2000
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by burek2000

      If villain is unknown just use the basic strategy...

      You play as if there were 2 limpers, so what would you do if one of them limp/raised? With other words, there's a raise behind you and the chart tells you what hands to continue with.

      As for the posted hand, raise/fold indeed.

      Regards,
      burek2000


      Hi burek2000,

      The first chart says that go broke when facing a raise after you with TT+,AK.
      However, the second chart says that go broke according to the ratio of stack size : size of the raise.
      As shown in the second chart, Hero should go broke with 77+,AJ+,KQ when the ratio of stack size : size of the raise is 2.5:1 or lower.
      As the hand posted, the ratio is $3.63 : $1.50 that is 2.42 : 1 which is in the range of 2.5:1 or lower. So, according to the chart, Hero should call it.
      Am I right?

      Thanks
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by JHTAN
      Originally posted by burek2000

      If villain is unknown just use the basic strategy...

      You play as if there were 2 limpers, so what would you do if one of them limp/raised? With other words, there's a raise behind you and the chart tells you what hands to continue with.

      As for the posted hand, raise/fold indeed.

      Regards,
      burek2000


      Hi burek2000,

      The first chart says that go broke when facing a raise after you with TT+,AK.
      However, the second chart says that go broke according to the ratio of stack size : size of the raise.
      As shown in the second chart, Hero should go broke with 77+,AJ+,KQ when the ratio of stack size : size of the raise is 2.5:1 or lower.
      As the hand posted, the ratio is $3.63 : $1.50 that is 2.42 : 1 which is in the range of 2.5:1 or lower. So, according to the chart, Hero should call it.
      Am I right?

      Thanks
      Hi JHTAN

      The chart you posted are for playing with other SSS players
    • MeanGreen
      MeanGreen
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2007 Posts: 862
      I think you're wrong Thazar, the stack:raise ratio chart is a basic chart against unknown villains. The caption is "The standard all-in conditions after a reraise are as follows:".

      There's another chart that shows EV against SSS reraising you, but it's not that chart. http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/sss/169/2/

      According to that chart you have ($5.13-$1.50 : $1.50) = 2.42:1 so basically a push would be ok. You'd be far more accurate to go with Tampaloeres' approach to calculate the range against which you have 50% EV.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by MeanGreen
      You'd be far more accurate to go with Tampaloeres' approach to calculate the range against which you have 50% EV.
      Well you dont need 50% but more like 40-45% since there is already money in the pot ;)

      T.
    • thazar
      thazar
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      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      I stand corrected :f_biggrin:
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Throw the chart in the trashcan --> learn how to use equity, pot odds and standard ranges.

      Is UTG+1 shoving QJ/KJ/KT preflop? so in other words: worse hands? no hence you have <50% equity from the get-go, it's so easy to determine this.

      More concrete:

      Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
      Player 1: 68.176 % 67.770 % 0.813 % 31.417 % TT+, AQs+, AKo
      Player 2: 31.824 % 31.417 % 0.813 % 67.770 % KdQd



      Now calculate your pot odds JHTAN, there is an article if you dont know how to this..

      - Gerv
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by Gerv
      Throw the chart in the trashcan --> learn how to use equity, pot odds and standard ranges.
      :f_love:

      Create your "own chart" starting hand/groups vs different ranges. In the process you have learned them by head.
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by Gerv
      Throw the chart in the trashcan --> learn how to use equity, pot odds and standard ranges.
      Hahahaha, it is so funny :f_love: :f_love: :f_love:

      Thanks guys
    • Gerv
      Gerv
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Can I mark this as judged or are you going to show me how to calculate pot odds??
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by Gerv
      Can I mark this as judged or are you going to show me how to calculate pot odds??
      mark it as judged. Thanks