restealing range that i don't get

    • wiarygodny
      wiarygodny
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2009 Posts: 1,395
      heres a hand that i was analyzing using sngwiz

      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

      let's say we dont care for now if the ranges i gave my opponents make sense or not. at least thats not my main concern here. I don't get the pushing range that wiz gives me here... Why 77 is a fold while QJs is a push??? as far as i understand the concept i can push here a range that plays well against BU's CALLING range, his open raising range doesn't matter here - am i correct? if i assume hes calling a pretty tight range of 99+ AQ+ and i run the calcs against that range 77 has 35.55% equity while QJs has 33.3%. Am i missing something or theres something wrong here?

      You can call me a totall fish, i don't mind, just pls explain it to me :f_biggrin:

      cheers!

      p.s. after a while i started to mess around a bit with BB's calling range and it just confused me even more... i guess those calcs are just too sophisticated for me now, altough any attempt to clarify it a bit will be much appreciated
  • 6 replies
    • malosanmaka
      malosanmaka
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 508
      QJs has blockers for QQ,JJ and AQ from his calling range.

      So QJs push would have better fold equity then 77 or 88 (if you assume that fixed call range from the villain)
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      I don't get it. Don't QQ, JJ, AQ and AJ "block" QJ? And fold equity is not related to the hand you're holding, right?
    • malosanmaka
      malosanmaka
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 508
      Lets compare the 2 cases - just the btn vs us (ignoring the big blind)

      a) We have 77

      BTN open range 25.9 % 33+ Ax+ K8s+ KTo+ QTs+ QJo JTs
      Number of combos: 344 - 13 = 331 (13 are "blocked")
      BTN push call range 5.1% 99+ AQ+
      Number of combos: 68 (none are blocked)

      We are getting called 68/331 = 20.5%

      b) We have QJs

      BTN open range 25.9 % 33+ Ax+ K8s+ KTo+ QTs+ QJo JTs
      Number of combos: 320 (24 are blocked)
      BTN push call range 5.1% 99+ AQ+
      Number of combos: 58 (10 combos are blocked)

      We are getting called 58/320 = 18.1%


      Correct me if I made any mistakes. (its possible that open range I used isn't exactly the same as one you selected in sngwiz but it shouldn't affect the result by much)
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      I don't get it. In a) you're getting called 20.5% of the time and in b) 18.1%. The only difference is that you're holding a different hand, which your opponent doesn't know. Still he seems to be basing his decision on that hand.

      edit: I see what you mean. There will be less strong hands left, so he's less likely to have one and call you with it.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      Excellent analysis, malosanmaka.

      Here is a simpler conceptual example. Suppose you are heads-up with 100 bb, and for some reason you know that if you open push from the small blind, the big blind will only call with AA. Which hand would you rather have for pushing, A2o or 22?

      22 has more equity when it is called, 17.8% rather than 6.8%. However, since A2o blocks half of the AA combinations, you get called only 3/1225 = 0.24% of the time instead of 6/1225 = 0.49%.

      Getting called with 22 costs 65.4 bb relative to taking the blinds 0.49% of the time. The total cost of running into AA is 65.4 x 0.49% = 0.32 bb.

      Getting called with A2o costs 87.4 bb relative to taking the blinds 0.24% of the time. The total cost of running into AA is 87.4 x 0.24% = 0.21 bb.

      So, even though A2o has less equity when called, pushing A2o is more profitable than pushing 22.
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      That's another reason not to push hands like 22. I really hate to have to push hands like 22/33/44, because if someone holding 57o decides it's worth a gamble, it's a coinflip at best.