[NL2-NL10] nl20sh kqs on sb

    • aanty2000
      aanty2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 484
      Titan No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10/$0.20BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

      SB ($26.58)
      BB ($28.41)
      MP3 ($7.28)
      CO ($40.38)
      Button ($24.68)
      1 folds, CO raises to $0.80, Button calls $0.80, SB calls $0.70, 1 folds

      Flop: 4:heart: , K:diamond: , 7:diamond: ( $2.6 )
      SB checks, CO checks, Button checks,

      Turn: K:spade: ( $2.6 )
      SB checks, CO bets $2.40, 1 folds, SB raises to $6.00, CO raises All-In $39.58, SB raises All-In $25.78,

      River: 3:spade: ( $67.96 )


      Final Pot: $66.96

      the initial raiser was very lose vpip was 50 and af was 3.2 . the buton was very lose too and i guess he was weak if he couldnt 3bet pre . i called oop to see a flop like that and try to chek raise him but he didnt bet (that was a little suspicious) ... but when the turn came i was realy happy . i was sure he was going to bet it and i raised him . considering his af i was thinking it was good to call there
  • 10 replies
    • aanty2000
      aanty2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 484
      want an opinion
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      only play kq first in...
    • aanty2000
      aanty2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 484
      :D =) ) ... i wrote the reason why i played it there
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      and i think it's not a good reason. If you think that you are ahead of his range, why didn't you reraise then? That's called "squeezeplay", a well known tournament play, which is not bad in a cashgame if you think you are ahead.
    • aanty2000
      aanty2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 484
      because i was oop ... i didnt want to get in a 3beted pot oop with kq
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      Originally posted by aanty2000
      because i was oop ... i didnt want to get in a 3beted pot oop with kq
      so you don't like being oop, except if you are 100% sure you will see a flop? That makes no sense to me at all, i'm sorry. If you don't want to be oop with such a marginal holding, then you shouldn't have called at all. If you raise, you can scare those donkeys with marginal hands out, which is what you want with a marginal hand like the one you are holding. That was my point with "fold preflop". Your explanation may make sense, but Kq doesn't have any implied odds, exept for the flush. If you want implied odds for trips, then 79 is a way better holding, because they are often live.

      Three options available for NLHE:

      1. call: for implied odds, you want to see a flop, and the price you pay for that is relatively less then the pot you gain if you hit.
      2. raise: for reverse implied odds, you don't necessarily want to see a flop, because your hand is the best hand before the flop. So you want to pick the pot op right here, or pick it up with a continuation bet or a bet you make because you still think you have the best hand.
      3. fold: your hand is shit, muck it.

      I think in this KQs example, you can only do 2 or 3 imo. You are either ahead of his range (his range is K9-AA f.e.) and you want to raise. If you lose to AK then, it's bad luck. Or you are behind to his range (his range is KJ-AA f.e.) and you want to fold. There is no "in between". You are either ahead of his range or behind. If he has AT, then you aren't ahead against him, and he won't call you if you hit your monster. No-one with ace ten calls down with trip kings on the board, so calling to hope you are not up against a player with AK or AQ is senseless, because hands without a K or Q won't pay you off.

      Another thing about KQ:
      it's fake! It's two facecards, but not half as strong as his big brother; big slick. It's a dangerous hand, which normally loses big pots and wins small ones. If you would've picked the pot up on the flop, you would probably be fairly happy about. At least, I am if i win after hitting with KQ. So it's rubbish in a raised pot.

      ... and another btw: if you would've squeezed, to 3.20, then CO would probably have given up his 44 or 77, because he would've been afraid of an overpair, and he wouldn't have odds. Also, if he flatcalled it, you raised the flop, and he called, you could much more easily know that he had you beat, and it would've been a lot cheaper...
    • aanty2000
      aanty2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 484
      m8 ... i called because his very wide raising range ... i have seen him raising q 7 k 8 and j 5 in the last 10 hands ... playing them very agresively on the flop ... even if he hited or not ... so i tought i have great implied ods if i hit top pair ...
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      Originally posted by aanty2000
      so i tought i have great implied ods if i hit top pair ...
      that's not implied odds, that's reverse implied odds!

      I'm not going to argue again, I just think it's very poorly played, and gave you arguments too, oop, domination, no information, etc.

      This is THE best example that superhyperaggresive/sammy farha style can pay off. This is because people start tilting, and start calling you with a lot less then they normally do. This way you lose some cheap pots, where you give up after a cont bet, you win some small pots, which you pick up, and you win BIIIIIIIIG pots, because your monsters get payed off for entire stacks.

      i have seen him raising q 7 k 8 and j 5 in the last 10 hands


      then you should definitely have reraised! (i wouldn't have, but i think of myself as not good enough to get stuck in these kinds of situations) because he will give up there, so you don't give him implied odds to hit two pair on the flop. Because if you have 100bb, and you raise to 4, you actually have implied odds for 2 pair already! So if you raise 72 off, you have 4% chance to get 7722x on the flop. Only problem with 72 is, that most players don't play 7's and 2's, so you don't get paid, exept by pocket ducks or pocket 7's, to which you lose a lot. Hence the bss shc raising ranges. It's all mathematics, baby.

      wauw, you had 125bb, it was great play by your opponent. I'm not surprised if he got a 40$ stack in an honest way (good opponent, i mean).

      btw: watch high stakes poker! It shows a winning sammy, which is pretty weird if you consider the difference between how he plays, and how we play.
    • aanty2000
      aanty2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 484
      hmmm ... i see your point ... but do you actualy defend your blind sometimes ? with weaker than ak jj ? you just need good 3bet cards when you are a blind ?>
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      I don't like a call with KQ - if I think I am ahead I reraise to get the pot preflop. I I don't think I am ahead I just fold, as you are sometimes dominated by AK/AQ in a raised pot. In your hand: just reraise: if he has such a wide range, you are ahead of it and can take down the pot preflop so often...