Bad Session

    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      Just had a really bad session in NL2, lucky for me I was playing there as I just burned through 400 BB's in around 1,000 hands. Not nice at all.

      So, clearly I was making some mistakes and I think its a good idea for me to evaluate where it was that I went wrong. Firstly, it started really bad, within around 10 minutes I was down around 200 BB's:


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      UTG1:
      $10.19
      Hero:
      $2.42

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J:diamond: , J:club:
      UTG1 raises to $0.04, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 4 folds, UTG1 calls $0.11.

      Flop: ($0.33) 7:diamond: , 6:heart: , 3:heart: (2 players)
      UTG1 bets $0.33, Hero raises to $0.76, UTG1 raises to $10.04 (All-In), Hero calls $1.51 (All-In), UTG1 gets uncalled bet back (All-In).

      Turn: ($4.87) 9:club:
      River: ($4.87) A:club: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $4.87

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      UTG1 shows three-of-a-kind, sevens (7h 7c)
      Hero shows (Jd Jc)

      UTG1 wins with three-of-a-kind, sevens (7h 7c)

      and....


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $2.13
      MP2:
      $8.92

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K:spade: , K:club:
      3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.04, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.17, BB folds, MP2 calls $0.13.

      Flop: ($0.36) T:diamond: , 6:diamond: , 4:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.24, MP2 raises to $0.48, Hero raises to $1.96 (All-In), MP2 calls $1.48.

      Turn: ($4.28) 5:spade:
      River: ($4.28) 9:heart: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $4.28

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      MP2 shows three-of-a-kind, tens (Ts Tc)
      Hero shows (Ks Kc)

      MP2 wins with three-of-a-kind, tens (Ts Tc)


      Both these hands were to the same Villan. In both cases I should probably have folded on the flop after getting a large amount of resitstance, but I didn't want to throw away such nice cards!!

      It has got me thinking about what is the correct play in situations where your over-pair gets re-raised. I'm thinking that in general you shouldn't be willing to commit yourself to an all in with anything less than two-pair, I have been burnt far too many times with top pair/over-pairs and they are just -$EV situations. Maybe you wln a few, but overall do you win enough to make it worthwhile?

      Problem was that after this point, I was playing perhaps too aggressively (still tight), and was keen to quickly win back my lost chips. The definition of this is probably going on tilt!

      So, I managed a couple more big losses:


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $4.89
      MP1:
      $2.86
      BU:
      $1.97

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 8:spade: , 7:spade:
      UTG2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, BU raises to $0.04, SB folds, Hero calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02.

      Flop: ($0.13) 8:heart: , 5:spade: , 2:spade: (3 players)
      Hero bets $0.1, MP1 folds, BU raises to $0.22, Hero calls $0.12.

      Turn: ($0.57) 7:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.23, BU calls $0.23.

      River: ($1.03) J:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.22, BU raises to $0.62, Hero calls $0.40.

      Final Pot: $2.27

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      BU shows three-of-a-kind, jacks (Js Jc)
      Hero shows (8s 7s)

      BU wins with three-of-a-kind, jacks (Js Jc)

      In this hand I felt like the villan may have hit a set on the flop (after he re-raise me), but I felt my odds were too good to fold with the flush draw available. Turn bet was a bit of a feeler to see where I was with two pair, then the river bet was designed to be a 'block bet' and was 20% of the pot size (as I had missed my flush), but wanted to see a showdown incase two pair was good enough.

      and....


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $1.9
      Hero:
      $2.61
      MP2:
      $1.72
      MP3:
      $1.95

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J:club: , 8:diamond:
      3 folds, MP2 calls $0.02, MP3 calls $0.02, 2 folds, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($0.08) J:diamond: , T:club: , 7:club: (4 players)
      SB bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.08.

      Turn: ($0.32) A:spade: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.12, SB calls $0.12, Hero calls $0.12.

      River: ($0.68) 9:spade: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.49, MP3 raises to $1.00, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.51, MP3 raises to $1.73 (All-In), Hero calls $0.22.

      Final Pot: $4.14

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      MP3 shows a straight, ace high (Kc Qc)
      Hero shows (Jc 8d)

      MP3 wins with a straight, ace high (Kc Qc)

      On this hand I hit an unexpected straight on the river. When the villan started betting into me I was thinking it was my lucky day, but he managed to have picked up a higher straight. I'm thinking I should have just called his raise on the river rather than re-raising all-in?

      Finally to top it off....

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $1.92
      BB:
      $2.35
      MP2:
      $1.29
      CO:
      $2
      Hero:
      $4.17

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with Q:diamond: , J:diamond:
      3 folds, MP2 calls $0.02, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.11, SB calls $0.10, BB calls $0.09, 2 folds.

      Flop: ($0.37) Q:heart: , 6:diamond: , 4:heart: (3 players)
      SB bets $0.37, BB folds, Hero calls $0.37.

      Turn: ($1.11) 7:heart: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.45, SB raises to $1.44 (All-In), Hero calls $0.99.

      River: ($3.99) 9:heart: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $3.99

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows (Qd Jd)
      SB shows a flush, ace high (Ah Jh)

      SB wins with a flush, ace high (Ah Jh)

      This is the worst of the lot, although please let me know if your dis-agree!!

      On the turn I went for the dumbest call. The opponent was clearly checking to me on the turn to induce a bluff bet, which I did (maybe a mistake, not sure with top pair). However, calling the all-in to follow was just throwing away chips. I felt pot-commited, but you could say more realistically that I was tilting and didn't want to give up my hand.

      That was the last hand I played of the session, figured I should call it a day there!!

      So, any thoughts about these hands, and tips to avoid tilting and compounding earlier losses?

      Anyone else had worse sessions to share and make me feel a little better!?
  • 4 replies
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well your hands were pretty much all cooler situations thats hard to avoid getting stacked. You pretty much played them fine, its would be pretty stupid to go folding overpairs in 3-bet pots.

      Take KK hand for example, if he stacks off there with any set and JJ, QQ your a ahead of his range 55%-45%, not to mention he might stack off there with a T as well as some flush draws so you will have around 63% equity on average. I know sometimes it seems like they always have a set in those spots but thats just short term variance. Sadly we usually only remember how they sucked out on us when they hit a set and never how they just stacked off with JT in that spot.

      The 78s hand either re-raise on the flop or the way you played it check shove the turn. Your hand has way to much equity against anything he can have there so easy stack off.

      J8o is fold on the flop. Your likely to have 3outs or your drawing dead. If you somehow tilt your way to the river then just c/c with a 4 card strait on board.

      Last hand was pure tilt spew and you probably figured that out yourself. There are 2 reason to bet in poker. Either to get a better hand to fold or a worse one to call you. Now on this board you will never get him to fold a better Q, especially if he has a high :heart: to go with it. You also never get called by QT or worse there one the flush hits. Raise on the flop to get it in is also very thing with out some strong reads that he can stack off with a flush there, which also has decent equity against you anyhow.

      If it makes you feel better my record is losing 13 stacks in 1 session and 38 stacks in 6 session in a row over 3 days. There really isn't a lot to do about tilt really until you have some really bad sessions. It get better everytime and sooner or later you don't even care if your up or down 5 stacks 5minutes into the session. Until then the best thing you can do when you don't feel like your playing your A-game and starting to tilt is stop playing for the day or how ever long it takes you to stop thinking how shitty you run.

      Also if you have holdem manager you can do a session review to figure out how much of it was variance and how much of it was purely a bad play. In your case there was nothing you could do about losing the first 3 stacks, but the last 2 hands were a total spew so if you wouldn't go on tilt you would end the session down only 3 stacks instead of 5, which is a huge difference considering how small our winrates are. With a solid winrate you need 2 play 1k hands to get 1 stack back on average so those 2 stacks you spewed away are 2k more hands you need to play to get them back assuming you have a 10bb/100 winrate.
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      I totally agree that the last hand was just spewing chips, especially on the all-in call. I was looking at the current pot ($3), and the amount to call $1 and figured that maybe there is a 25% chance that I could win that hand. Stupid moment, as I clicked call I was thinking 'what am I doing, there is no way that I'm ahead here' but clicked anyway.

      I looked through my hand history, and maybe it is variance but I'm only even on JJ - AA. I seem to win lots of small pots with these hands, but lose entire stacks with them to even things out.

      As for the J8 hand, I'm not sure if I should be folding top pair on the flop there? Clearly the river wiped me out, but I was actually ahead up until that point, the Villan was betting on his OESD (although, there was a million cards that I didn't want to see on the turn and river).

      As for calling the turn, that was crazy given there was now an ace on the board so I could easily not even have the top pair. The river.....I didn't even stop to think about how he could have a higher straight.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      You were actually behind all the way. On the flop he had 66% equity to end up with the best hand by the river since he had K :club: Q :club: for a strait + flush draw and 2 overcards for a total of 21 outs against your hand or he could easily have a better J, 2pair or a made strait already.

      And your call would be fine if it was a heads up pot, but you also have to worry about the 2 players that still have to act behind you. You pretty much have to fold when they raise, and when one of them calls your top pair with no kicker is no good 99% of the time.

      And you will get into a lot of trouble on the turn and river since there will be a ton of scared cards that will hit and you won't know where your at after he bets again. Then your playing a guessing game and will be forced to fold at some point or make a hero calldown bleeding even more money for no good reason.
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      Looking at the hand face up, you are certainly correct.

      In general I have trouble folding top pair to a bet on the flop as it could also have been a bluff, or betting with a worse hand. However, in a multi-way pot I can see your point J8 doesn't have much scope for improvement and any bet on the turn or river leaves me very unsure.

      Maybe I should consider playing less tables (play 4 at the moment) in order to have more time to think through my post-flop decisions in game. Currently the correct decision is no-where near instinctive, so under pressure I can often make the wrong choice.