How to win @ FullTilt?

  • 7 replies
    • extpan
      extpan
      Gold
      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 289
      99% :) + all other stuff to adjust to opponent :P
    • Leito99
      Leito99
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 754
      i am guessing about 85% for small winrate
      but 90+ is recomended, its hard to get 95+ because they have a good few marginal spots
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      It matter how bad your errors are. If you are supposed to push a range down to K4s, and you push K3s, it's not a big deal, and it doesn't really point to any conceptual errors. If you push 72o when you should only push KK+, that's really bad. I wish ICM Trainer would keep track of not only what percentage of plays you get right, but also the equity it thinks you gave up, which would be more meaningful.

      In practice, you will deal with many situations which are not push/fold. Sometimes the stacks will be deeper, and some of your opponents will limp or make a small raise, and you can't rely on your open-push/open-fold prowess to make the right decision. Also, you will find that ICM Trainer does not show you the same distribution of stacks among your opponents that you get in real games. Of course, your opponents do not play the Nash equilibrium ranges, so you can often do better than the Nash ranges by exploiting them. So, although there is a lot to learn from ICM Trainer, and I recommend studying with it, you also need to play some real tournaments as part of the learning process.
    • variancekiller
      variancekiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2010 Posts: 896
      Originally posted by pzhon
      It matter how bad your errors are. If you are supposed to push a range down to K4s, and you push K3s, it's not a big deal, and it doesn't really point to any conceptual errors. If you push 72o when you should only push KK+, that's really bad. I wish ICM Trainer would keep track of not only what percentage of plays you get right, but also the equity it thinks you gave up, which would be more meaningful.

      In practice, you will deal with many situations which are not push/fold. Sometimes the stacks will be deeper, and some of your opponents will limp or make a small raise, and you can't rely on your open-push/open-fold prowess to make the right decision. Also, you will find that ICM Trainer does not show you the same distribution of stacks among your opponents that you get in real games. Of course, your opponents do not play the Nash equilibrium ranges, so you can often do better than the Nash ranges by exploiting them. So, although there is a lot to learn from ICM Trainer, and I recommend studying with it, you also need to play some real tournaments as part of the learning process.
      If there would be a idea of adding that to the tool that would be great. Can't you toss up a ball?
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      Is it possible to beat the ICM trainer by 90%+ and still be a -20% ROI loser at 1-3$ SNGs? :-|

      Edit : I played only 200 tournaments but the "winrate" is scaring me already.
    • Semesa
      Semesa
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 294
      I asked a similar question and the answer I got was that you can expect winnings with 95% correct ICM decisions
    • Wohmfg
      Wohmfg
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 500
      Originally posted by Semesa
      I asked a similar question and the answer I got was that you can expect winnings with 95% correct ICM decisions
      I can't see this as true, but would also like an answer to this question.

      There is so much to deal with that isn't standard Nash range push or fold, much like pzhon says. You have to be able to get a good idea of opponent's limping ranges, raising ranges and pushing ranges. You have to know how much fold equity you have against limps and raises. You have to be able to categorize your opponents. And then there are steals and resteals, and the whole early phase of the tournament.

      This is the entirety of what I think about when I play micro stake SnGs. I am a slight winning player over about 900 games (small sample I know), and only have about 92% in the ICM trainer over around 10000 hands, although I have improved greatly over time in both the trainer and the actual games. I really think that at the micro stakes, in my experience, the ICM trainer only serves as a very general guideline to how stack sizes and position affect your range. The calibration of your push ranges comes from experience and fiddling around with ranges in PokerStove.

      This is my take on beating micro stakes SnGs and would be appreciative of any feedback or thoughts.