how to adjust icm?

    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      hello, I have a very difficult question:

      how should I adjust icm if my opponents are extremely tight? At the start, the opponents are loose and aggressive, but when the blinds reached the p/f-level, they all tighten down. I ran into aq with q7, kings with qt, and ak with k9, and i checked all those hands in the calculator, and it said i played them all "icm-correct". My question is: should I adjust my play to tight opponents, and if so, how? Should i be more aggressive, raising ATC from sb with 10bb stack, or tighten down and wait, like they do? Or am I just very unlucky? I was called a donkey a few times, for raising marginal hands, but I know it's not the wrong thing to do against opponents who have blood streaming through their brain...
  • 5 replies
    • AcerUT
      AcerUT
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 3
      Don't worry, you were just unlucky.

      The way you adjust to tight players is to shove wildly on them. Do not shove too many BBs though since it's likely you'll be an underdog when they finally call. I recommend you use hands such as T9s for shoving better than a6o, plays better against their callrange.

      In most cases, you can use as a rule of thumb that the tighter the players are the more aggressive should you be. Do not turn into one of those who try to wait for a good hand to snap off one of the aggressive players with, it's just not going to work. Against people who call looser, be more careful but do not be afraid to get called if you have an ace or a good king or 55 because often they call with worse hands which will be very profitable.

      Against the kind of players you describe here, you can probably shove any two from SB if they are tight enough with 10bb. If they are averagely tight, you can shove the top50% hands (all hands that beat a single random hand). Don't feel despair if you get called many times and you're totally crushed, it's just variance and bad luck and you'll often win with the worst hand which is what makes ICM work.

      That is very general. To sum it up, be aggressive against tight opponents, but do not risk too much. If both have 15bb, you can just make a raise to save chips if you believe that they aren't reraising wider than they are calling with. SnG will be frustrating but if you ICM calculators tells you your move was good, then it was good and that's the end of it :)

      Edit: Getting called a donkey, idiot etc is often an indication that you're doing something right. Let's say the BB is auto-all in on the bubble for 150 chips, the blinds are 300/600 and the others limp to try end the bubble, I have 8K and push for dead money in the pot with 92o or whatever and they have to fold. I know "omg you stupid idiot" is coming and I'm going to like it :)
    • Unam
      Unam
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 17.08.2006 Posts: 8,999
      There is nothing you can do when villain wakes up with a monster. But when you know they are so tight, you may stealraise and fold to their shove.
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      Originally posted by Unam1337
      There is nothing you can do when villain wakes up with a monster. But when you know they are so tight, you may stealraise and fold to their shove.
      ok but that's not always an option. with one of the stacks 10bb or less it's pretty much shove or fold. I let someone review my play, and he said it was alright, so i guess i shouldn't complain about my 300$ downswing...

      I'll introduce the 2.5bb raise to my play now, it seems to work against these opponents.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      yeah.. question about that actually. i learnt from annette's playstyle that late in tournaments you should steal with a smaller bet. I think the reasoning behind this is that when you're deepstacked, people have great implied odds if you bet anything less than 4BB. but when blinds are starting to cripple anyone (but not quite at ICM yet), a standard 2.5BB raise is enough. what do others think about this?
    • Unam
      Unam
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 17.08.2006 Posts: 8,999
      Originally posted by helemaalnicks
      ok but that's not always an option. with one of the stacks 10bb or less it's pretty much shove or fold.
      Why? Because every body tells you so?

      Why shouldn't I raise with marginal hands to 2.5 or 3BB, when one reraises me I know I am beat and fold, then I still have chips left.
      Lets say you have A3o from the CO with 8BB and everybody behind you has you covert, you would have a shove here, but you will have no mare than 3 outs, when you get called or raised, so you can fold.
      Ofcourse, this is no standard play, but when the other players are tight and weak as you said, then it is def. an option.

      Vary your play when it is possible and +EV.