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[NL2-NL10] SHC modificaton

    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      UTG+1 is a 70/20 player.
      According to SHC with two raises preflop, we only push with KK+, but I believe that I had EV+.


      PartyGaming - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 8 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      MP+1: $3.99
      CO: $2.00
      BTN: $2.00
      Hero (SB): $1.75
      BB: $3.43
      UTG: $2.00
      UTG+1: $2.10
      MP: $2.00

      Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10, CO posts DB $0.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.25) Hero has K:spade: A:club:

      fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.40, fold, fold, CO raises to $2.00 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls $1.70 and is all-in, fold, UTG+1 calls $1.60

      Flop: ($5.85, 3 players) 8:spade: 5:diamond: J:diamond:

      Turn: ($5.85, 3 players) K:diamond:

      River: ($5.85, 3 players) 5:spade:
  • 12 replies
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      You are only looking at UTG+1

      The guy you should take note of is the CO so what are his stats?

      - Gerv
    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      No stats for CO
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by fotakis
      No stats for CO


      Ok then you should look at other things like if he multitables, reads, tells etc.etc.

      So in other words: can you give me more info on this villain in order to justify a deviation without a gambling element?
    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      In a small sample (100 hands) CO is 8/7. Could you please explain to me why he is more important than the UTG+1?
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hey fotakis,

      Originally posted by fotakis
      In a small sample (100 hands) CO is 8/7. Could you please explain to me why he is more important than the UTG+1?
      CO is 3-betting(shoving) in this case and his range is much tighter than UTG's and he is actually the player you will play against if you call because he is all-in while UTG might still fold or call if he has a strong hand.

      And 8/7 even after 100 hands is a sign for a very tight player who will at most 3-bet AK/JJ+ here, so calculate your equity against that range and the equity you need and you'll find out why your call was -EV.

      Regards,
      burek2000
    • AlCaTrAzzALZ
      AlCaTrAzzALZ
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 726
      assuming over a large sample we see that CO is indeed a 8/7 player (lets assume a 3bet of 3% (JJ+,AKs,AKo) against which our AKo is 60/40 dog... i agree that vs this player, calling AKo is -ev for 17bb, but my question is, at what stack size can we say this is a neutral ev or even a plus EV decision? or our stack size never matters in this particular hand since CO made his decision before we acted?
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by AlCaTrAzzALZ
      assuming over a large sample we see that CO is indeed a 8/7 player (lets assume a 3bet of 3% (JJ+,AKs,AKo) against which our AKo is 60/40 dog... i agree that vs this player, calling AKo is -ev for 17bb, but my question is, at what stack size can we say this is a neutral ev or even a plus EV decision? or our stack size never matters in this particular hand since CO made his decision before we acted?
      What is the needed pot eq with a stack size of 4xbb, 10xbb, etc?

      Calculate it ;) and see with which stack sizes you play (rebuy to max).

      T.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      With 14bb you have a EV of +0.5bb (ES 1.5, deadmoney 0.85%, PEQ 39.8%)
    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by Gerv
      With 14bb you have a EV of +0.5bb (ES 1.5, deadmoney 0.85%, PEQ 39.8%)
      How could I find it?

      EQ(SE+deadmoney) - (1-EQ)(SE-sb) ?

      Regards
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      EV = Pot*Foldequity + (1-Foldequity)[(eff.Stack+Deadmoney)*Equity – (eff.Stack*(1-Equity))]


      This is the formula i use.

      For excel use
      =D111*D119+(1-D119)*((D113+D115)*D117-(D113*(1-D117)))
    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by Gerv
      EV = Pot*Foldequity + (1-Foldequity)[(eff.Stack+Deadmoney)*Equity – (eff.Stack*(1-Equity))]


      This is the formula i use.

      For excel use
      =D111*D119+(1-D119)*((D113+D115)*D117-(D113*(1-D117)))
      nice! I think it's kind of the same formula but without foldequity :)


      Originally posted by Gerv
      With 14bb you have a EV of +0.5bb (ES 1.5, deadmoney 0.85%, PEQ 39.8%)
      I didn't get the 0,85 deadmoney. Would it be the UTG open raise (considering he will always fold for simplification) + the big blind (no rake discounted for simplification). So 0,40 + 0,10 = 0,50? Where I'm I missing it?

      thx in advance! :)

      ps. sorry for my poor english. feel free to correct me at anytime here too :D
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      hum I assume we raised 4x pre as a poster came up with a theoretical situation ;)